Meeting with David Miliband.
- Thread starter davem2005
- Start date
willywetegg
Administrator
"To be honest I am not very impressed. Its a propaganda video. anglers fishing in canoes 200 yards off the shore are catching better fish than you caught on that vid. Fishing is poor but you painted it dire. Angling licences and bag limits need taking out the marine bill and quick".
First of all Glenn, as most of the boat anglers on this forum will tell you, at times boat angling IS dire, the same as shore fishing can be. I have a mate that goes out in a Kayak and he has some great days, he also has some dire days too.
Have a look in the "Catch reports" in the boat fishing forum for the last couple of years or try asking some of the boat lads about their catches over the last couple of years and I am sure you will get an idea of what I am talking about. This year so far has been a lot better than the previous two I would guess from reading the reports but I am sure the lads will put me right if I am wrong.
I don't know what you do read on this forum but over the last few weeks a lot of the regular posters have been complaining about shore anglers taking far too many Mackerel home, I am sure that you would agree that a bag limit would stop this.
I have seen some threads on a couple of forums from people that have been bragging about how many fish have been caught in a session from the Charter boats also, not a good thing in this day and age. I am sure that you would agree that a limit should be set to stop some of these mindless people continuing to do this also.
I know we all pay a lot of money to spend a day on a Charter boat but how can people complain about the trawlers being allowed to land what ever they want when some people will keep every single fish they catch by rod and line.
Again if you read the catch reports in the "Shore fishing" forum on NESA most people on here tend to return more fish than they take home, again a great thing at this moment in time and I am sure if you were to ask most of them I do not think that they would have a problem with a bag limit. Again if I am wrong I will hold my hands up.
When it was first mentioned, I was totally against a bag limit, I got to thinking "How many fish do I actually take home now". Not a great deal as most of my fishing is now done just for the sport and the excitement of it. I do keep the odd fish, especially if it is belly hooked or bleeding as I do like a nice fish meal now and again. I live well inland and it costs me a fortune to fish each year but I really don't think that a bag limit would make much of a difference to me.
Jim.
First of all Glenn, as most of the boat anglers on this forum will tell you, at times boat angling IS dire, the same as shore fishing can be. I have a mate that goes out in a Kayak and he has some great days, he also has some dire days too.
Have a look in the "Catch reports" in the boat fishing forum for the last couple of years or try asking some of the boat lads about their catches over the last couple of years and I am sure you will get an idea of what I am talking about. This year so far has been a lot better than the previous two I would guess from reading the reports but I am sure the lads will put me right if I am wrong.
I don't know what you do read on this forum but over the last few weeks a lot of the regular posters have been complaining about shore anglers taking far too many Mackerel home, I am sure that you would agree that a bag limit would stop this.
I have seen some threads on a couple of forums from people that have been bragging about how many fish have been caught in a session from the Charter boats also, not a good thing in this day and age. I am sure that you would agree that a limit should be set to stop some of these mindless people continuing to do this also.
I know we all pay a lot of money to spend a day on a Charter boat but how can people complain about the trawlers being allowed to land what ever they want when some people will keep every single fish they catch by rod and line.
Again if you read the catch reports in the "Shore fishing" forum on NESA most people on here tend to return more fish than they take home, again a great thing at this moment in time and I am sure if you were to ask most of them I do not think that they would have a problem with a bag limit. Again if I am wrong I will hold my hands up.
When it was first mentioned, I was totally against a bag limit, I got to thinking "How many fish do I actually take home now". Not a great deal as most of my fishing is now done just for the sport and the excitement of it. I do keep the odd fish, especially if it is belly hooked or bleeding as I do like a nice fish meal now and again. I live well inland and it costs me a fortune to fish each year but I really don't think that a bag limit would make much of a difference to me.
Jim.
Glenn Kilpatrick
Well-known member
My point was the video is rubbish. It seeks to portray an image of boat fishing that simply is is incorrect. Even in bad years we catch more than boot strap ling. I had a 4 pound ling from the shore of all places just a few months back bigger than that one Dave shows in the video. This is an extract from one of Alan Charltons reports from the same port as Dave fishes from just 2 weeks ago
These are pictures from Whitby just this year :
Ok the fishing may not be amazing like it was in the 70's or 80's. Quite possibly because of other factors that level may never be achievable again, but I know one thing fishing is not as bad as that video seeks to portray. As for bag limits for mackerel, Ive heard it all now.
These are pictures from Whitby just this year :
Ok the fishing may not be amazing like it was in the 70's or 80's. Quite possibly because of other factors that level may never be achievable again, but I know one thing fishing is not as bad as that video seeks to portray. As for bag limits for mackerel, Ive heard it all now.
northeast1
Well-known member
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The Great Wallsendo
Well-known member
Can I ask a question that I have asked before about the size of catches on Charter Boats?
What happens to all the fish that are brought ashore?
Using the picture above as an example - a small commercial trawler would be happy with that haul....do the lads keep the fish, or does the skipper keep some of them for sale to the shops/personal use?
These aren't silly questions because the whole question of catch and release and bag limits is surely highlighted by those pictures alone.
A skipper that puts you over the right spot and enables the angler to catch good size fish in numbers is clearly worth his salt - but surely keeping 150+ fish is excessive?
What happens to all the fish that are brought ashore?
Using the picture above as an example - a small commercial trawler would be happy with that haul....do the lads keep the fish, or does the skipper keep some of them for sale to the shops/personal use?
These aren't silly questions because the whole question of catch and release and bag limits is surely highlighted by those pictures alone.
A skipper that puts you over the right spot and enables the angler to catch good size fish in numbers is clearly worth his salt - but surely keeping 150+ fish is excessive?
davem2005
Well-known member
Glenn,
As I said on the SACN site the video was never intended to be a fishing video to be shown on the sports channel it was commissioned by the WWF to put over to MP's the importance of the marine bill in the future of our seas. They shot over 2 hours of film and edited it to suit the message THEY want to get across. Not unsuprisingly they did not include footage of fish in boxes or for that matter of the scene where Stephen demonstrated how to fish with peeler crab which personally had me in stiches but then again it wasn't a comedy movie either. Plan B in the event of rough weather was to film the entire thing sat on the boat in the marina and it would have served its purpose just as well.
You said in an earlier post that the fishing isn't what it was, we do get the odd good days, but these are the exception rather than the norm. I am old enough to remember fishing in the seventies and eighties and would like to see those times return.
The current legislation has been in force since 1967 and has been responsible for our declining fish stocks, its time this legislation was changed as things will never improve unless something is done to bring it up to date and reflect modern intrests.
There are a lot of anglers out there who can remember when things were really good. Ask Rich Ward the details of what he was catching on the day Stu Johnston caught the record cod and you will get an idea of how things could be. That was Whitby fishing at its best. The angling press did not need to go to Norway to get feature articles as they got all the cod fishing articles they needed right here in the NE.
If you are happy with the way things are the democratic does allow you to have your say, but dont forget that this is a national issue not a local one and you could try telling a guy fishing Dungeness beach that there is nothing wrong with the current cod fishing or for that matter a guy fishing steetly pier.
Theres an intresting article here
http://www.fishing.co.uk/article.php3?id=207
on cod fishing around the country written by Mike Thrussell back in 1999. I wonder how many of the areas mentioned are still producing good cod?
Cheers
Dave
As I said on the SACN site the video was never intended to be a fishing video to be shown on the sports channel it was commissioned by the WWF to put over to MP's the importance of the marine bill in the future of our seas. They shot over 2 hours of film and edited it to suit the message THEY want to get across. Not unsuprisingly they did not include footage of fish in boxes or for that matter of the scene where Stephen demonstrated how to fish with peeler crab which personally had me in stiches but then again it wasn't a comedy movie either. Plan B in the event of rough weather was to film the entire thing sat on the boat in the marina and it would have served its purpose just as well.
You said in an earlier post that the fishing isn't what it was, we do get the odd good days, but these are the exception rather than the norm. I am old enough to remember fishing in the seventies and eighties and would like to see those times return.
The current legislation has been in force since 1967 and has been responsible for our declining fish stocks, its time this legislation was changed as things will never improve unless something is done to bring it up to date and reflect modern intrests.
There are a lot of anglers out there who can remember when things were really good. Ask Rich Ward the details of what he was catching on the day Stu Johnston caught the record cod and you will get an idea of how things could be. That was Whitby fishing at its best. The angling press did not need to go to Norway to get feature articles as they got all the cod fishing articles they needed right here in the NE.
If you are happy with the way things are the democratic does allow you to have your say, but dont forget that this is a national issue not a local one and you could try telling a guy fishing Dungeness beach that there is nothing wrong with the current cod fishing or for that matter a guy fishing steetly pier.
Theres an intresting article here
http://www.fishing.co.uk/article.php3?id=207
on cod fishing around the country written by Mike Thrussell back in 1999. I wonder how many of the areas mentioned are still producing good cod?
Cheers
Dave
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Topfly
Well-known member
I got round to watching the video, which dave kindly put on the forum, as he said he would. For anyone who hasn't seen it, They begin with showing the oyster beds around the essex shoreline,and their concerns over discharges/pollution . Then move to Belfast lough, once again your man talks about the effects of developement,run off,and ship building??? there are few fish in Belfast lough i know, i work there. Iwas going to delete all this and not bother but what the hell.the film goes to a no-take zone (Lundy) out of bounds to you and me. Then the Severn estuary eco system.then Cardigan Bay which the Gulf Stream brings a rich diversity of marine life ni to the area,Then the Northeast which got a bood chunk of the tape showing how bad the fishing can be.Then smelly old Bass rock with the Gannets etc Finishing off with a wind farm off Yarmouth which took 9 years planning and 1 year to build. Maybe i'm a bit cynical but the way i see it is that the activity of farming,industry,and commercial developement is having the most destructive effects on our marine eco systems The Elected Government of this country should levy the guilty parties who have caused this damage, and not expect recreational sea anglers to pay for it's reversal, with a sea rod licence. Dave, I know there is a bigger picture but your average angler is not to blame for the state of the fishing these days
davem2005
Well-known member
Stickler,
You are missing the point.
The marine bill is about the overall welfare of our seas and their management, its not about anglers paying for the improvements through licenses. It does say that any revenue raised from a license would be used on angling related issues.
If you think that any money raised thru a license fee would go anywhere towards any of the other issues raised by the marine bill you only need to see the cost of rebuilding wembley to see that it would be a pitance in terms of the funding required.
The marine bill white paper is over 160 pages long and angling references only amount to a few paragraphs on those pages. That should give you an indication of how important and all encompassing document it actually is. It is only if many of the others get their act together and the legislation right that we as anglers will see the benifits in terms of improved catches. If we end up paying a license fee as a result then we will have to fight to see that we get improvements and recognition first. But that is one small issue in terms of the whole proposals contained within the Marine Bill White Paper.
Its time anglers went proactive en masse and demanded improvements instead of just reacting to proposals made by the government...will this happen...well the people actively argueing with the government seem to agree thats its probably easier to motive anglers to tell the government to listen as there are a lot of us...than it is to get the government to listen to our arguements against what the commercials propose.
I have spent the day emailing club officials and all ne members of the SACN on exactly this subject. It only by letting the masses know whats happening that we will get anything changing. It certainly wont happen by complaining on forums.
It takes 2 minutes to email your mp and ask him his opinions on the marine bill white paper and tell him yours. It takes another two minutes to email defra and tell them you are a stakeholder in our seas future and wish to be included in any future consultations. That way you officially exist as an angler and can have your say.
It also only takes a few minutes to join the SACN and its totally free..that way you get an email saying when things affecting your sport may be happening.( but I may be biased on that one)
If anyone wants to be included on the email list I am sending stuff to please pm me or join the sacn. I will post the same information here when I have it in a smaller form than it currently is (19 pages of confusing stuff)
Cheers
Dave.
You are missing the point.
The marine bill is about the overall welfare of our seas and their management, its not about anglers paying for the improvements through licenses. It does say that any revenue raised from a license would be used on angling related issues.
If you think that any money raised thru a license fee would go anywhere towards any of the other issues raised by the marine bill you only need to see the cost of rebuilding wembley to see that it would be a pitance in terms of the funding required.
The marine bill white paper is over 160 pages long and angling references only amount to a few paragraphs on those pages. That should give you an indication of how important and all encompassing document it actually is. It is only if many of the others get their act together and the legislation right that we as anglers will see the benifits in terms of improved catches. If we end up paying a license fee as a result then we will have to fight to see that we get improvements and recognition first. But that is one small issue in terms of the whole proposals contained within the Marine Bill White Paper.
Its time anglers went proactive en masse and demanded improvements instead of just reacting to proposals made by the government...will this happen...well the people actively argueing with the government seem to agree thats its probably easier to motive anglers to tell the government to listen as there are a lot of us...than it is to get the government to listen to our arguements against what the commercials propose.
I have spent the day emailing club officials and all ne members of the SACN on exactly this subject. It only by letting the masses know whats happening that we will get anything changing. It certainly wont happen by complaining on forums.
It takes 2 minutes to email your mp and ask him his opinions on the marine bill white paper and tell him yours. It takes another two minutes to email defra and tell them you are a stakeholder in our seas future and wish to be included in any future consultations. That way you officially exist as an angler and can have your say.
It also only takes a few minutes to join the SACN and its totally free..that way you get an email saying when things affecting your sport may be happening.( but I may be biased on that one)
If anyone wants to be included on the email list I am sending stuff to please pm me or join the sacn. I will post the same information here when I have it in a smaller form than it currently is (19 pages of confusing stuff)
Cheers
Dave.
Topfly
Well-known member
Dave, I was making a point. That it has'nt been just mismanaged commercial fishing, and political incompetence that has led to state our seas are in. there are other sectors who are damaging our marine environment. I think the majority of anglers fish from the shore and might not bother looking at the video, just to let them know that we are not the only ones involved, ie inshore fishermen,birdwatchers,etc. even windfarmers lol.
ps I'm always sending E/Ms to P/Ms, MEPs, etc. pps Ray Apathy doesn't rule.
ps I'm always sending E/Ms to P/Ms, MEPs, etc. pps Ray Apathy doesn't rule.
davem2005
Well-known member
An MP is supposed to reply to any legitimate communication they recieve from a constituent. You do need to include your address and postcode in your email. Also a reply may take several weeks in some cases.
In the case of contacting a minister you will often get a reply on their behalf from a Aide or secretary. That has certainly been the case in my constituency for the last ten years as I live in the sedgefield district.
We have an upcoming by election and I keep putting undecided on their forms they send out. Cant wait for the labour candidate to come knocking on my door
Cheers
Dave
Red5
Well-known member
Got to agree with you Wallsendo, what's the point in keeping all those fish, Have seen less landed by trawlers!Times that by how many other charter boats and people out in their own pleasure craft and you start to make as much if not more of an impact as commercial vessels apart rom the fact you're not tearing up the seabed and taking other fish and creatures that you won't keep.
So it was a poor session when Dave and the WWF took the video. It happens. My mate went out of Amble on Saturday and had 2 coalies to show for it, the idea that the video is putting across is that the state of angling is on the decrease.
I know from our shore catches in the Alnwick Sea Angling club have fallen dramatically over the past few seasons and those that haven't caught as many as others have left the club because they as well as others believe there are fewer fish out there.
So it was a poor session when Dave and the WWF took the video. It happens. My mate went out of Amble on Saturday and had 2 coalies to show for it, the idea that the video is putting across is that the state of angling is on the decrease.
I know from our shore catches in the Alnwick Sea Angling club have fallen dramatically over the past few seasons and those that haven't caught as many as others have left the club because they as well as others believe there are fewer fish out there.
davem2005
Well-known member
Red5,
Thanks for that...we caught fish ...i think the final total kept was 34 cod between 5 anglers (not a bad total for that time of year)and probably a similar number released. But the point of the film was to put the wwf's views on the marine bill.
I have just been talking about the film to the skipper and we both commented about the ling. The conclusion was it was the smallest thing caught and it was release with the minimum fuss back to grow up.so it makes good footage for a conservational orientated organisation. I cant actually work out why the octopus got into the picture but that went back as well.
Today was the press launch and I have had 3 calls from the press. I have to comment on the WWF film but also make comments as to why anglers are not happy with some of the proposals contained within it. They all commented they would speak on that later. (fobbed of no doubt)
It will be intresting to see how many of the actual target audience (the MP's) turn up to see it tomorrrow. I will try and get every name at the viewing so you can see if your MP was there.
Point to note is Gov Ministers were not invited for etiquette reasons (so milliband wont be there) If you invite them you have to allow them to speak and time alloted would not permit.
Cheers
Dave
Thanks for that...we caught fish ...i think the final total kept was 34 cod between 5 anglers (not a bad total for that time of year)and probably a similar number released. But the point of the film was to put the wwf's views on the marine bill.
I have just been talking about the film to the skipper and we both commented about the ling. The conclusion was it was the smallest thing caught and it was release with the minimum fuss back to grow up.so it makes good footage for a conservational orientated organisation. I cant actually work out why the octopus got into the picture but that went back as well.
Today was the press launch and I have had 3 calls from the press. I have to comment on the WWF film but also make comments as to why anglers are not happy with some of the proposals contained within it. They all commented they would speak on that later. (fobbed of no doubt)
It will be intresting to see how many of the actual target audience (the MP's) turn up to see it tomorrrow. I will try and get every name at the viewing so you can see if your MP was there.
Point to note is Gov Ministers were not invited for etiquette reasons (so milliband wont be there) If you invite them you have to allow them to speak and time alloted would not permit.
Cheers
Dave
willywetegg
Administrator
Thank's for taking the time to let us know Dave.
Jim.
Jim.
davem2005
Well-known member
Just got back from Parliament and all I can say is it was worth every minute of the 18 hour day.
About 5 MP's turned up but there were plenty of researchers. These are people sent by MP's to do the legwork and difficult to tie down as to who they are actually working for.
There was a list of MP's who had said they would attend either in person or send someone and not a single NE MP was on that list.
So why so happy. Well we sat with and had a long discussion with the MP for Reading west Martin Salter. Who is that you may ask. He is a keen angler, and personal friend of the current fisheries minister. The first thing he did was greet Leon who was with me by name and hand us a press release he had issued today that he had been appointed as a Party Vice Chairman.
The easiest way to explain that is to post the press release and you will see we have a friend in high places.
For immediate release:
10 July 2007
NEW JOB FOR SALTER
Reading West MP, Martin Salter, has been appointed Vice Chair of the Labour Party by new Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
Mr Salter will be one of six Vice-Chairs working directly to Deputy Leader Harriet Harman. He will be in charge of campaigning on environmental issues and will be working closely with the new ministerial team at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.
Harriet Harman said;
“I look forward to working with Martin Salter and his other colleagues in this high-calibre team of Party Vice-Chairs who are taking on a range of important challenges.”
Mr Salter has also been reappointed as Labour’s Parliamentary Spokesman for Angling and Shooting – a role he has held since 2002.
Martin Salter said:
“Concern for the environment is fast leaping up the political agenda and my job will be to coordinate the work of MPs, councillors and party activists with the work of ministers across the government on the environmental agenda. I will also be liaising with the green groups and voluntary organisations to engage them in the process of developing policy. My strong contacts in the world of angling, fisheries, water and wildlife groups will give me an excellent start in this new role.
My immediate priorities will be to press for an enhanced Marine Bill to incorporate the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Review and possibly the recently announced proposals on improved public access to the English coastline. I also intend to explore ways in which young people can be better engaged in action to improve the environment and to promote awareness of climate change.”
/ENDS
More information: Martin Salter MP
First thing he asked was for details of the no trawl zone at boulby. The task of getting the info to him was given to me but I will need help from those in this region who have actually fished it and will start another post accordingly on every forum I can. I will also contact the NESFC for details of how this area , which is unique within the uk, came about.
The plan is for anglers to push for a "Golden Mile" around the entire coastline of the UK. This would effectively mean that no trawling or netting could take place in the first mile of the sea. I will post more details later.
It will take emails from individuals and clubs to put on the necessary pressure but the groundwork is already taking place.
Final bit of news which you are reading here before the papers get hold of the information is that it will be announced at 12.30 pm that the marine bill is to be descussed in parliament during its next sitting. This is the next step in making the white paper an actual law.
You read it first on NESA.
This effectively means that since the Marine Bill has all party support it is very unlikely that it will be defeated and all we can hope for is that friendly MP's will table ammendments in our favour. All we need to do is lobby hard enough for those ammendments.
The meeting broke up after a discussion with Martin Salter in which he expressed a desire to try skate and shark fishing. Both of those trips will go ahead.
Cheers
Dave
About 5 MP's turned up but there were plenty of researchers. These are people sent by MP's to do the legwork and difficult to tie down as to who they are actually working for.
There was a list of MP's who had said they would attend either in person or send someone and not a single NE MP was on that list.
So why so happy. Well we sat with and had a long discussion with the MP for Reading west Martin Salter. Who is that you may ask. He is a keen angler, and personal friend of the current fisheries minister. The first thing he did was greet Leon who was with me by name and hand us a press release he had issued today that he had been appointed as a Party Vice Chairman.
The easiest way to explain that is to post the press release and you will see we have a friend in high places.
For immediate release:
10 July 2007
NEW JOB FOR SALTER
Reading West MP, Martin Salter, has been appointed Vice Chair of the Labour Party by new Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
Mr Salter will be one of six Vice-Chairs working directly to Deputy Leader Harriet Harman. He will be in charge of campaigning on environmental issues and will be working closely with the new ministerial team at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.
Harriet Harman said;
“I look forward to working with Martin Salter and his other colleagues in this high-calibre team of Party Vice-Chairs who are taking on a range of important challenges.”
Mr Salter has also been reappointed as Labour’s Parliamentary Spokesman for Angling and Shooting – a role he has held since 2002.
Martin Salter said:
“Concern for the environment is fast leaping up the political agenda and my job will be to coordinate the work of MPs, councillors and party activists with the work of ministers across the government on the environmental agenda. I will also be liaising with the green groups and voluntary organisations to engage them in the process of developing policy. My strong contacts in the world of angling, fisheries, water and wildlife groups will give me an excellent start in this new role.
My immediate priorities will be to press for an enhanced Marine Bill to incorporate the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Review and possibly the recently announced proposals on improved public access to the English coastline. I also intend to explore ways in which young people can be better engaged in action to improve the environment and to promote awareness of climate change.”
/ENDS
More information: Martin Salter MP
First thing he asked was for details of the no trawl zone at boulby. The task of getting the info to him was given to me but I will need help from those in this region who have actually fished it and will start another post accordingly on every forum I can. I will also contact the NESFC for details of how this area , which is unique within the uk, came about.
The plan is for anglers to push for a "Golden Mile" around the entire coastline of the UK. This would effectively mean that no trawling or netting could take place in the first mile of the sea. I will post more details later.
It will take emails from individuals and clubs to put on the necessary pressure but the groundwork is already taking place.
Final bit of news which you are reading here before the papers get hold of the information is that it will be announced at 12.30 pm that the marine bill is to be descussed in parliament during its next sitting. This is the next step in making the white paper an actual law.
You read it first on NESA.
This effectively means that since the Marine Bill has all party support it is very unlikely that it will be defeated and all we can hope for is that friendly MP's will table ammendments in our favour. All we need to do is lobby hard enough for those ammendments.
The meeting broke up after a discussion with Martin Salter in which he expressed a desire to try skate and shark fishing. Both of those trips will go ahead.
Cheers
Dave
willywetegg
Administrator
Sounds like a bit of good news for a change Dave, thank's again for taking the time and effort to keep us informed mate. 
Jim.
Jim.
SIXFOOTSTEVE
Well-known member
Thanks for the information Dave , and Graham ,Amen to that .
