how stiff do rods really need to be ?

[GerryBerry]

Bob, all of the 484s/464s had a bit missing off the tip mate you could see this as the ring spaces at the tip end was out of kilter with the rest of the ring spacings..lol.
I had the 484 with the cork butt reel up and when I think about it the reel winch fitting to bottom of the butt was built for giants as the grips were way to far apart,never the less a very good built rod and a for-runner to the j curve rods of today with stiff-ish butt and powerful mid section then v flexible tip....hence bit missing off the tip. lol.
I think the blanks of these rods were conolon USA.
At the time ABU was market leaders in rods n reels.
But when Terry Carrol started his business of rod manufacture we moved into a different era because you had the perfect marriage of a top caster making and designing beach casting rods and its still going strong today and in my opinion the best you can get.
There is no rod manufacture that builds/designs rods and knows how to use them only Zziplex and this will live on.

What about Julian Shambrook's Anyfish Anywhere rod's Harry, designed by a England triple gold medal winner, and he certainly knows how to use them.

 

[harry barker]

What about Julian Shambrook's Anyfish Anywhere rod's Harry, designed by a England triple gold medal winner, and he certainly knows how to use them.

And made in China I believe and not made by the above gentleman.

No doubt good rods as well but tell me a company that the man makes and designs the rods due to his experience of using them.

 

[Rocker]

A rod only needs to be stiff enough to suit the conditions and venue.
I've owned a few rods but use four, all have their uses.
I've got an sv bullet, which I use on the really rough stuff like the green wall,
A century tts, which is a great mixed ground beach rod.
An Excalibur tt, great for cliffs or lumping 7oz into a gale.
I pair this up with an old Mk 1 Apollo when beach fishing in winter when I want to use 2 rods.
So to conclude, I think you need at least three or four rods depending on the marks you fish.
Not all modern rods are stiff though, I had a zziplex HST that was like a stick of licorice

 

[InCodweTrust]

Just seen this while mooching about on the web. Its an interesting debate and it'll be interesting to here what people have to say.

' Lets take a look and see if rods have changed for the good for fishing. Lets go back to the 70's wasnt many ultra stiff rods back then! Unless you took the scarborough rod and reel route. Lets look through to modern day, in the 70's the multiplyer age began i remember rods such as milbro, hardy, edgar sealy & so on, now these rods were floppy things but did they catch fish! Of course they did, Rock ,Sand, Pier, the lot. Did they cast a bait along way? Yes coupled with a mitchel 600, or a intrepid sea streak or even a early 7000 with level wind, Not quite to todays standards but double that of the old scarborough gear, so we move on then came the real changes abu 484, Conoflex, plus others, these rods could cast even further still very soft by todays standards, but did they catch more fish open to debate. Only when the real class anglers took this method onboard then things started to change! Eric Thompson "still one of the best there has been." Jeff Cook, Mick Hillaby & Joe Bamfield Just to name a few these boys could pull cod through kelp with ther soft rods! Over the next few years things moved along slowly in rod desighn but at this time a man came along that was to change all angling around scarborough and surrounding areas, a man who would use this new tackle to its limits "remembering that we are still on relativly soft rods" This man took rock angling to a level not even matched today using 7000's, 484's, Conoflex's He outcasted and outfished anyone who crossed his path, That man being Steve I'nson.but Lets get back to the rods the next real move forward was Semi-Carbon again conoflex these rods were the benchmark for everything to come, these agian were still very soft by todays standards, but did they catch less fish? No, more! And probably bigger ones too.The casting era had begun. The next major change in my mind was zziplex, still very soft actions but the part where people seem to forget is they were very powerfull capable of casting long distances with big baits and also pulling fish through heavy kelp! Zziplex moved slowly forward making quality fishing and casting rods "only fueling steve's quest even further" The other manufacturers also brought ther own models out and were very succesful with models like Conoflex's , Flicktip, & Diawa's WKT and so on, Give and take a few years. At this point i think rods became a selling tool not a fishing tool, some manifacturers decided they would even start making rods that didnt bend and just snapped "Scorpian sport for example" Shame really becuase the rods they were making before were exellent! Then came to my way of thinking some of the best fishing and casting rods ever made watching some of our local big casters use rods from this era in my opinion casting some of ther longest lines take CPS "as big a caster as there is" always thought his best was a S.V bullet "mint fishing rod". Then take ramrod watched him many times pendulum his 12 foot soft tipped terminator and land his lead in Norway! (again a excellent fishing rod) Mart Wilding another massive caster with rods from this era. Then came the stiff era, and the question i leave you with is "Have we lost the plot?" How stiff do rods need to be to catch fish on rough ground or do they need more viagra in with the carbon? please give me your opinions as i am interested to know where we are going from here and in my opinion a lot of our best catches and best fish were taken on softer rods

I used to fish around Scarborough a lot around the early 70's, and used to see all the lads swinging the scarborough gear out. With regards the Scarborough reels, and the rods used for them. They tended to be quite short, and very stiff. There was a reason for this they were used for roving angling, fish a rock hole for an hour and if you didn't have a fish move on to the next. They used to come into there own at low water. More than a few lads used to do this by push bike on the Marine Drive marks. Some with the rods slung bow style over there backs, or tied to the cross bar, some I would say were under 10' long. Thing is they didn't need to cast far for this, and needed a really strong rod to get any fish out of the snags, and kelp. The strong stiff rod wasn't for the casting, I could get very reasonable distances, not the same as a multi. before you start, with a 9" oil bath, paired with a 12' foot purpose built Martin james Yarmouth, which was a through action rod with serious power in the middle section. Very effective on the drive, apart from the big gap you had to create in the pedestrians to cast over the shoulder, on a sunday

 

[john/r]

just a thought many tend to believe you need a stiff rod to bully fish out off kelp heavy ground lifting fish up piers etc etc.

not everybody lives next to the sea hence they aint sure if sea is rough etc etc ,prob is up here we have a variety of marks and sea conditions determine were you fish thus determing what rod to use.

these days it is not wise to leave rods in the car easly stolen so i think most would take one rod down.obviously i stiff rod can use anywere wereas a soft rod has it limitations.

realy i think it comes down to what do you call a stff rod and do you realy think you need a stiff rod for heavy ground .

 

[topbanana]

My opinion is once a rod is locked up its locked up, no matter how powerful they are. Again my opinion is that rods are heading more towards tournament casting as opposed to fishing rods.

 

[fish fingers]

top post topbana got some good replies back and plenty of views

 

[john/r]

My opinion is once a rod is locked up its locked up, no matter how powerful they are. Again my opinion is that rods are heading more towards tournament casting as opposed to fishing rods.

i have heard it said and read it that some say that casting is fastly becoming a different hobby/sport to fishing.

again i think this comes down to ones own thoughts,casting imo can learn you a lot about rods and smooth casting.

if you learn to cast it is up to ones self how often and to a point were to use it as well as rod choices .

personaly myself i believe is very important part of fishing still and well worth learning imho.

 

[topbanana]

i have heard it said and read it that some say that casting is fastly becoming a different hobby/sport to fishing.

again i think this comes down to ones own thoughts,casting imo can learn you a lot about rods and smooth casting.

if you learn to cast it is up to ones self how often and to a point were to use it as well as rod choices .

personaly myself i believe is very important part of fishing still and well worth learning imho.

Without doubt but I can't help think that in quite a few case's people buy rods that they can't use but do so because the rods in question do it on the fields with people that can use them. If I were to wear usans bolts running shoes there is no doubt in my mind that I could not run as fast as him so why is that people think that owning the rods tournament casters use make them top casters and anglers. Back on topic, me personally, I don't think you need rods with as much power as they have now. Where does it stop ? For me these rods take away the enjoyment of fishing. As the post states, people done just as well with softer rods back in the day as they do with the ego boosting barge poles of the casting field.

 

[john/r]

Without doubt but I can't help think that in quite a few case's people buy rods that they can't use but do so because the rods in question do it on the fields with people that can use them. If I were to wear usans bolts running shoes there is no doubt in my mind that I could not run as fast as him so why is that people think that owning the rods tournament casters use make them top casters and anglers. Back on topic, me personally, I don't think you need rods with as much power as they have now. Where does it stop ? For me these rods take away the enjoyment of fishing. As the post states, people done just as well with softer rods back in the day as they do with the ego boosting barge poles of the casting field.

you may have a point m8 time will tell.

 

[cod magnet]

well its a funny thing, but i have been shying away from stiff rods for a couple of years now, however i tried a zeteque xl yesterday first cast pendulum it had me a bit , so i slowed the cast down and hit the rod a little later , than i would my hst evo and m4 evo, and it went really well , however trying a high inertia style with 5 foot drop tucked under the rod i went straight in full speed the rod ripped the rubber of my thumb , where as with the other rods i can use for both high inertia style and pendulum and hit the rod with all i have otg without them tearing my thumb of , but i still would not shy away from the zeteque as a pendulum rod as it would lift a bigger fish than my other rods with out a doubt ,so i would have a stiffer rod in my collection if i could afford it , but an average caster casting OTG would be hindered by the stiffer rod just my opinion

 

[Limpet]

Without doubt but I can't help think that in quite a few case's people buy rods that they can't use but do so because the rods in question do it on the fields with people that can use them. If I were to wear usans bolts running shoes there is no doubt in my mind that I could not run as fast as him so why is that people think that owning the rods tournament casters use make them top casters and anglers. Back on topic, me personally, I don't think you need rods with as much power as they have now. Where does it stop ? For me these rods take away the enjoyment of fishing. As the post states, people done just as well with softer rods back in the day as they do with the ego boosting barge poles of the casting field.

Some casting rods make damn good fishing rods regardless if your a tourney caster or not your entitled to your opinion which is fair comment but it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about who uses what rod.. Stop looking down your nose and carry on using whatever you rod you like its personal preference at the end of the day

 

[finding nemo]

i asked our lass and she says the stiffer the better and that floppy rods are useless!!

 

[topbanana]

Some casting rods make damn good fishing rods regardless if your a tourney caster or not your entitled to your opinion which is fair comment but it seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about who uses what rod.. Stop looking down your nose and carry on using whatever you rod you like its personal preference at the end of the day

Hang on, I'm entitled to my opinion yet your getting a bit flighty over it. You must be well balanced with a chip on each shoulder. Wind your neck in.

 

[Rocker]

I'm interested to know which rods you regard as "stiff"
The reasoning being a rod one angler might regard as stiff, may not be to another.

 

[marco1967]

I'm interested to know which rods you regard as "stiff"
The reasoning being a rod one angler might regard as stiff, may not be to another.

this is a good point, i own 4 rods myself and am a big believer in having a rod that firstly suits the end user and secondly the venue . A person struggling with a stiff rod, another might really enjoy the same rod. In my 30 years of fishing i have used alot of rods , the one that suited me most was a greys shadow and i wished id never sold it . rods i hated were conoflex nemesis plus, conoflex highlander far too stiff for me and would pull me over. i think i have found the balance now in what i need in the rods i now own .

 

[topbanana]

Its not about me. The post originally came from the Whitby site and was put forward by a renowned angler from them parts and I happen to agree with his reasoning. I've used all sorts of pokers from the old raptors to the e1000 and zziplex hst evos, su's, txl's etc

 

[Stewart 1971]

Its not about me. The post originally came from the Whitby site and was put forward by a renowned angler from them parts and I happen to agree with his reasoning. I've used all sorts of pokers from the old raptors to the e1000 and zziplex hst evos, su's, txl's etc

I think it's a really interesting debate. Like I said I've fished the south coast for 20 years so have a bit of a different perspective - down there it is all about bite detection and the "feel" a rod gives. I can absolutely see the point the Deans is making; on the other hand seeing the Dymic HST (a rod that has repeatedly been cast well over 280 yards and is still used regularly by Gary Dickerson) described as a "stick of liquorice" kind of makes the OP's point for him.

I wouldn't disagree that for specific ground a hyper stiff rod can do a job and those who like to fish this way then fair play to them; what I'd challenge is the idea that the stiffer a rod is then the better the rod is - both on the casting field and the beach this is not necessarily true indeed the oppositte may be so.

 

[cod magnet]

Its not about me. The post originally came from the Whitby site and was put forward by a renowned angler from them parts and I happen to agree with his reasoning. I've used all sorts of pokers from the old raptors to the e1000 and zziplex hst evos, su's, txl's etc

i would not consider a hst evo a very stiff rod i would say powerfull through forgiving action but it will not bite like a zeteque xl ,

 

[Rocker]

A less strong or talented angler can easily get more from a so called "stiff" rod merely by upping sinker weight,
In other words, if your having trouble compressing a rod try a heavier sinker!
And Stuart, the HST is a good rod, not stiff at all though, I was a little harsh to lable it a stick of licorice, but needs a full pendulum to wind it up Imo, which I can do, but not on all of the marks I fish. So I would class it a feild rod.