bad news

The Great Wallsendo said:
Ok if it's solutions then we need more done by the fisheries patrols...more checks and more policing of our waters - prob with that ideal is that it's funded by the Government (ergo there's prob no money) and the last few times I've been at the Royal Quays the fishery vessel is berthed up :confused:
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I know that some people have seen it out, but every time I've been at the rq in the last 3 years its been tied up

often wondered where the crew are?? are they part timers?? are they from elsewhere in the country and just 'visit' now and again to take it out??

seems an expensive thing to not get used
 
Wallsendo...As a coastguard (most people don't seem to know what we do), we are part of the UK's SAR service, along with the RNLI, voluntary organisations, the MOD (that's the yellow Seaking on my Avatar) etc. We are on a 24hr pager system like the lifeboats where we get paged to attend incidents where people/ boats are in need of assitance. We do not have anything to do with policing fisheries. It's a struggle to get funding from our government for sufficient PR, patrols and most importantly training. You'd be outraged if you knew the half of it.
Mark....Remember going to the Isle of Whithorn about 5 years ago, with 3 lads from our club. They had been the previous year and it was my first trip. we had next to nowt in the 3 days we were there even though the previous year the lads had caught and released hundreds of Dogfish. We were speaking to a local and he said the Spanish vessels had recently found a market for the doggies in Spain. Says it all really
 
sweet lordy please don't think for one minute I'm suggesting calling out you guys :o...but what about the consequences of inshore nets? surely there's the issue of keeping waterways free from obstruction :question:

Red5 said:
Wallsendo...As a coastguard (most people don't seem to know what we do), we are part of the UK's SAR service, along with the RNLI, voluntary organisations, the MOD (that's the yellow Seaking on my Avatar) etc. We are on a 24hr pager system like the lifeboats where we get paged to attend incidents where people/ boats are in need of assitance. We do not have anything to do with policing fisheries. It's a struggle to get funding from our government for sufficient PR, patrols and most importantly training. You'd be outraged if you knew the half of it.
Mark....Remember going to the Isle of Whithorn about 5 years ago, with 3 lads from our club. They had been the previous year and it was my first trip. we had next to nowt in the 3 days we were there even though the previous year the lads had caught and released hundreds of Dogfish. We were speaking to a local and he said the Spanish vessels had recently found a market for the doggies in Spain. Says it all really
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mark said:
bit more to that story though... when the cod were all gone, they targeted the bait fish, and totally wiped them out, and as yet there is no signs of any recovery, and unlikely to be as the whole food chain was removed

I might be an (almost) lone voice here but I do have some sympathy for the commercials, and don't believe its as black and white as it may seem. Without a doubt they boats that have just netted, are not the culprits. In fact the problem is one that the inshore fleet have had little effect on compared to the common fisheries policy from brussels which has allowed massive overfishing by offshore boats, more often that not, not UK boats either, the cod don't breed half a mile from our shores, they are a long way off and that is where the damage has been done.

IMHO one of the worst bits of the CFP is that companies have been allowed to be set up and buy/trade in quotas, its the trade/leasing of quotas to the highest bidder that has allowed it to go unchecked to the state we are now in. All of that is something the inshore fleet have had to just take on the chin and have had no voice to prevent

10-15 years ago the fish quays all down the coast were still bustling, small local family outfits continuing something that there families had often built up over generations. The CFP pretty much put them out of business, but their quota was still around, gets sold to the highest bidder, so now, you're big offshore trawler can just keep leasing extra quota when they get wind of a patch of the sea that has some fish in it, and go and clear it out, add to that the fact that if its a french/spanish boat, the landing of under sized fish seems to get largely overlooked - last year I was in a hypermarket in france and asked for a kilo of dover sole - I was offered (and refused) 7 fish!

At the end of the day no-one is a winner here. whats left of our commercial fishing heritage is on its arse, and so is the shore angling.

One thing I do guarantee you though, lets say shields pier suddenly saw a huge shoal of cod... apart from the few anglers who are a bit conservation minded, almost every angler down there would do there level best to remove as many as they could and go back for more till they were all gone, then they'd go back again to make sure they were all gone.

I'd also wager that in the cod frenzy, those returning fish would be frowned upon by some of those filling there boots (to put it mildly) and there'd be some who'd behave the same way with what they catch as the ****wits do with the mackeral in summer

Human nature is a funny thing
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Probably the most intelligent and realistic post for a long time..
 
falcone,i have read your posts on this matter and have thought and pondered upon it with an open mind but i have come to a conclusion , i believe that you must have worked on the "commercial side of fishing" in the past and since becomin a "normal angler" you are troubled like us of the shortage of fish and in the back of your mind you probably long to go back to big catches , as do we. that is the coddlers opinion
 
The Great Wallsendo said:
sweet lordy please don't think for one minute I'm suggesting calling out you guys :o...but what about the consequences of inshore nets? surely there's the issue of keeping waterways free from obstruction :question:
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Sorry Wallsendo...you've lost me....What do you mean by calling out "us guys".....We do not have a problem about being called out to help those in need...We join to give something back to the communities we've lived in all our lives. What I was trying to explain in my original comments about why we would not be able to police the seas, was that we as a service are in the same deep do do's that the likes of the NHS are in and do not have the budget to peform the most important task of training to save lives beyond what I would describe as an acceptable level of competence. We are tasked with SAR, not policing the seas, just like you wouldn't expect the lifeboats crews to arrest illegal netters also.
That is why I asked Dave in an earlier post to explain where the law stands on trawling and netting and as each post goes on, we are obviously all becoming wiser to the current situation around our shores and how this and the proposed Marine bill affects us.
 
Lost in translation I think mate - what I meant to try and say was that I would not dream of calling out SAR and the RNLI to deal with a rogue netter...I guess I was asking who does deal with such issues on a local or even national level?...Is the Coastguard solely for the purpose of saving and preserving life or does it's remit stretch beyond that IE policing the waterways in some capacity? If not - whose remit is it?
 
mark said:
I know that some people have seen it out, but every time I've been at the rq in the last 3 years its been tied up

often wondered where the crew are?? are they part timers?? are they from elsewhere in the country and just 'visit' now and again to take it out??

seems an expensive thing to not get used
Click to expand...

You could also add to that quote the comments of Wallsendo

Ok if it's solutions then we need more done by the fisheries patrols...more checks and more policing of our waters - prob with that ideal is that it's funded by the Government (ergo there's prob no money) and the last few times I've been at the Royal Quays the fishery vessel is berthed up

And if there are toe rags and illegal netters - why aren't there (more?) local baliffs that can be contacted when people see or suspect netting that possibly isn't strictly kosher...again lack of money more than likely...what about the coastguard or the police - would they just shrug their shoulders? I know there's quite a few angling bobbys on here...what remit do our boys in blue have regarding illegal netters and the like?
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Some facts about the St Oswalds...The big black thing with "Fisheries Protection" written on the side which I would agree always seems to be berthed at RQ's and not out at sea.

Its owned and run by the Northumbria Sea Fisheries Committee.

They also have two RIBS one of which is towed and another is on the stern of the St Oswald.

Its payed for solely by the council tax payers of coastal councils from North Tyneside up to Berwick. It recieves no government funding.

Its sole responsibility is fisheries protection out to 12 miles which does not include the enforcement of Salmon and Sea Trout laws ( thats the EA's thing)

The first patrol reports I can lay my hand on are for the period April to June 07. Note that the numbers may not add up as one of the ribs is on the St Oswald and is occasionally used on its own but normally goes out with the main vessel.

April
Total of ten patrols. 8 by the St Oswald and 2 by the land based rib
140 vessel sightings
37 visual inspections
20 Vessels Boarded
49 sets of static gear inspected

May
10 Patrols 7 by St Oswald and 3 by the land based rib + 1 by the boat based irb
70 Vessel Sightings
26 Visual Inspections
18 Vessels Boarded
75 sets of static gear checked

June

6 Patrols !!!
etc etc etc

During this period at total of 13186 litres of fuel were purchased...

And so the report goes on.

Seems each boat spends on average 3 days per month at sea.

These are the people who you need to contact in the event you suspect an offence is taking place...only problem with that is when I tried to contact a fisheries protection officer recently I was told "We can not give out the number"

The St Oswald has a phone and a fax...but of course I cant give you the numbers to contact them ;) You would have to wait till the office opens on monday.

I will be bringing this up at the next meeting and hope to arrange a trip out with them just to see what goes on. Personally I have a mental picture of the St Oswald steaming down the tyne towards the piers...

"Right lads...vessel sightings....1,2,3,4,...." ;)

There are also shore based patrol(s) not exactly sure how many of them. They have a landrover and a Rib.

There is a detailed report of the fisheries officers actions in each region for each month however the NSFC do not choose to put this information in the public domain.

To answer Marks question regarding the officers. They are local guys in full time employment of the NSFC covering from the tyne to the Scottish borders. I am not exactly sure how many of them there are as i only ever meet the regional fishery officers at the quarterly meetings...I think there are 6 or 7 of them to crew the shore based patrols and the St Oswald.

Cheers
Dave
 
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coddler said:
falcone,i have read your posts on this matter and have thought and pondered upon it with an open mind but i have come to a conclusion , i believe that you must have worked on the "commercial side of fishing" in the past and since becomin a "normal angler" you are troubled like us of the shortage of fish and in the back of your mind you probably long to go back to big catches , as do we. that is the coddlers opinion
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Hello coddler and welcome to NESA, i openly state on 1 or 2 occasions that i worked aboard a commercial boat for around 7 years. Ive been shore angling for close on 19 years. I have had around 2-3 red letter days in my whole shore angling life, so i could never be called a big hitter as far as rod and reel goes.
Yes i am troubled by the shortage of fish{coming from someone who cant stand seafood}. If you read my posts again you will see that i have no desire to return to so called BIG CATCHES, i would just like to get a point across that not all commercial fishermen are the unscupulous pirates the're often made out to be on these forums, and that there are a number of factors responsible for the demise of our fishstocks.
I stay in regular contact with boat owners from around our region from hartlepool up to sunderland and i believe they deserve a little more respect than they get.

Peace out
 
The Great Wallsendo said:
Lost in translation I think mate - what I meant to try and say was that I would not dream of calling out SAR and the RNLI to deal with a rogue netter...I guess I was asking who does deal with such issues on a local or even national level?...Is the Coastguard solely for the purpose of saving and preserving life or does it's remit stretch beyond that IE policing the waterways in some capacity? If not - whose remit is it?
Click to expand...


Yup Coastguard (well us anyway) are soleley for SAR. There are other areas which check and enforce seaworthyness of vessels, but with regards illegal netting, it's the EA and Sea fisheries.

After Dave has been at the next meeting, maybe he can raise our issues and find out exactly who does what and how many shore based inspectors there are, how much they cost the taxpayer and if they feel they are giving us value for money with regards taking seriousness of reports etc.
 
I stay in regular contact with boat owners from around our region from hartlepool up to sunderland and i believe they deserve a little more respect than they get.
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I agree,most are simply doing a job of work,as i have said it is wrong to tar everyone with the same brush,but it does and will happen in all walks of life.
But i really do not understand why they do not form some kind of group to combat the public image of them.
 
I can give you a few reasons why, i know if i worked 80+ hours per weeks, then on bad weather days mending gear which has been damaged, maintaining your boat, then having to come home and fill in logbooks, deal with fish merchants and then have to do tax returns etc.
Not saying it still couldnt be done, but how high would it rank on your agenda if you had all that to contend with after that sort of week.

I mean personally if it were me the last thing i would want to deal with after such a tough week is people wanting to have a rant at you, im sure nobody else from here would either.
 
On the human side of things I would agree with you - why should they bother justifying what they do? The problem is that the Industry (of which each individual boat is part of) has this collective bad reputation (warranted or not)

No ordinary business would stand for that and would go all out with PR to try and remedy any bad publicity.

It seems to me there is an element of head in sand with this issue from both the Governing Bodies and also the boats themselves - in the hope the matter will "sort itself out"
 
Surely representation is what the Sea fisheries committees are about as most of the members have a vested interest in the commercial sector! If they represent the commercial sector and these guys are out working all hours then the SFC's should start to come out and explain their perspective and their ideas for conservation.

Maybe that's why the trawlermen series was aired to give an insight into the industry, but really ended up shooting themselves in the foot when people saw what was trawled up and it's value on the market. This image is what gets anglers backs up .

They are'nt going to get the same sort of respect as the crew of the 'Cornelia Marie' in the Bering sea, their fisheries, having a whole different ethos with strict qoutas, closed seasons etc.

Looking at the Marine bill. and the replies ..The loudest voices I seem to hear are the true environmentallists, with many groups coming together with one voice to petition the government for a bill which best represents their view!
 
With regard to image its intresting to note that an organisation called "Seafish" who are set up to market commercials and their catch made a presentation at the last meeting. This actually took twice as long as the meeting. I guess you could call an organisation looking after their image.

The purpose of the presentation.

" How to Improve the image of commercial fishermen"

Seems they realise all is not well and are looking at ways of changing the publics perception. The result of the presentation...the committee set up a sub committee to look at ways of changing the image.

To be honest I am not actually sure if thats the image of the committee or the image of the commercials and I certainly did not put my hand up to sit on that sub committee.

The other group representing commercials at government level is the NFFO (National federation Of Fishermens Organisation). They mainly represent large pelagic boats.

Its intresting to note that the president of the nffo has a case for illegal fishing currently pending and an ex chairman (now on the finance committee)has also been prosecuted in the past...now what were we saying about bad image?

Cheers
dave
 
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The Great Wallsendo said:
On the human side of things I would agree with you - why should they bother justifying what they do? The problem is that the Industry (of which each individual boat is part of) has this collective bad reputation (warranted or not)

No ordinary business would stand for that and would go all out with PR to try and remedy any bad publicity.

It seems to me there is an element of head in sand with this issue from both the Governing Bodies and also the boats themselves - in the hope the matter will "sort itself out"
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That was what is was going to say,i know what working long hours is like,i used to do 12 hours a day 7 days a week,while the work is there you take it.
But they don't have to do much,meet once a month,have a debate,write a few letters,sorry but there are people a plenty out there who do that and hell of a lot more for something they simply believe in ,let alone something that is there source of income.
I know i was one of them for M.A.G,Motorcycle Action Group.
They can choose to something or not,but it strikes me they have the "farmer" attitude,everyone mind your own business about MY business but then they expect someone else to do something to keep them earning a living.
I am simply suggesting they could be proactive and protect something that they claim they love to do.
Nothing more.
 
I earn my living from the sea in a round about way, as I work in a tackle shop.
But find it hard to understand the thinking of some on this forum!
If you buy fish and chips it is You and not the fisherman that is to blame! Stop the demand and you stop the fishing, this ant going to happen.
I think Anglers have to stop and look at themselves before they point the finger at commercial fisherman. Every day I speak to anglers that are taking the small ones home for next doors cat!!!, or the match anglers that dump 30lb of whiting in the bin after every club match!!
I was on Whitley beach on Saturday night and a load of fish was caught, some reported some not, could the commercial fisherman say we took all his fish? Of course not , so why do we expect them to see our point of view when we act as saviours of the sea!!
 

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