All Alone ...a day out on the St Oswald

[davem2005]

Today myself and Loopy Les had a trip out on the St Oswald, which for you who dont know is the Northumbrian region fisheries protection vessel. Some of you may have seen the boat but for those who haven't its a huge black thing berthed at the royal quays with FISHERIES PROTECTION written on the side.

The reason we joined the crew on the boat was to see what the fisheries protection guys do for a living and how they help enforce the bylaws that help protect the seas. Both Les and I and members on the SFC and this was part of an introduction as to what the enforcement arm of the SFc actually do and the problems they have in doing that work.

The St Oswald is very impressive piece of kit which originally cost £1.5 M and as such carries the latest (at its commisioning time) in electronic gizmo's which any self respecting boat owner would love to own . One of the most striking things about the cabin when you first enter is the number of Knobs , levers, dials , screens and other other things way beyond my comprehension. Many of the major items are doubled up for safety reasons, but a brief list from memory would inlude.

Radar, fish finder( dont think they call it that ) and PC all networked so that any vessel sighted on the radar can be flagged and plotted for coarse and speed. All these were backed up by second radar, sounder and plotter. Satelite compass, wind speed indicator, fax machine, telephone and a second computer with internet connection via a dongle.

Twin 700 HP cummins deisels provide the power plant and a genset generator to give 240 for all the boys toys. All in all a very nice boat to be aboard, and in particularly on what was not a very good day to be at sea...in fact we were alone.

So we left RQ at 7.00 am and headed out to sea. The region the boat covers is North of the Tyne to Berwick so we headed out of the tyne to 5 miles offshore and followed this line to the north. For me the most striking thing that was at no time during the day did anyone use the wheel and all steering was done by a quick turn of a knob on the dash and the auto pilot made all adjustments. This was not a a run out put on for the benefit of the two committe members on but but a scheduled patrol we had been invited to join. The crew comprised of the skipper Al Brown the regions chief fisheries officer and 3 other crew members.

One other thing I forgot to mention is the St Oswald carries a ramp launched rib which is used for boardings to inspect commercial boats but despite the fact the design of the boat allows it to be launched in just about any conditions, the prevailing conditions meant there were simply no boats at all out there to board!

The big tides mean that the larger trawlers had had a few days off because the returns are bad with high tides and it was too rough for the smaller boats. The RSA boats all took the sensible descision and stayed in their berths...quite simply ...a sea devoid of boats. I have to say it was not a good day to be at sea.

Its been a long day and I will continue this tomorrow because one of the by products of an un eventfull day is it gave Les and myself plenty of time to chat to the SFC protection guys and get their views on many issues which could affect our sport in the future.

My day that started with dreams of SBS style boardings from a rib ended up drowned in a very VERY lumpy sea in which it seemed no one but the foolish wanted to venture. From an enforcement point of view the highlight of the day was altering course by 5 deg to investigate a boat cruising within 6 miles which turned out to be a commercial fisherman from ireland travelling somewhere but not actually fishing. It did make it clear how all the technology on board was used to identify a craft, was logged and also reported to defra who are the main UK enforcement agency all whilst still at sea. These kind of reports go in on a daily basis ...hence the on boat internet connection and help to back up data from the satelitte tracking system.

There is much more to write on this as the discussions were actually more intresting than the trip itself. I have a few photo's to upload and I will continue this thread tomorrow.

Bye for now...as I didnt actually realise there were two 6 oclocks every day!

Part 2 tomorrow.

Cheers
dave

 

[keithm]

nice read m8 look forward to part 2

 

[tonynufc]

nice one mate, cant wait for the pics and the next installment. it would have been much better if they'd been able to board some boats.

 

[bobo]

Great Report Mate, There was a big boat came into blyth last week and the back of it lifted up so did some of the deck and a rib drove up the ramp at the back of the boat, the back came down and the people of the rib came through the deck where it was open then the floor closed up so the rib was hidden it was like a james bond movie and a load of us couldnt believe what we had seen.

 

[jason]

great report dave and thanks for all that you do on behalf of fishermen, the sport and fish stocks.

look forward to the 2nd part tomorrow.

 

[davem2005]

So to continue.

Running north we were going with the swell and it was a very comfortable journey. As I said there were very few boats out . A few salmon netters around the tyne mouth who were making the best of the last few days of the season which ends this month and the one vessel steaming south around the file mile mark.

This is where the electronics come into play. First thing they did was highlight the boat on the radar by moving a cursor over it. This then tracked the boat on the radar and gave its speed and heading. It also marked the boat on the plotter. Trawling is done at under 5 knts so since the boat was doing 9 knts it was fair to assume it was in transit to an area somewhere further south. A course deviation to bring us closer to the boat and get an ID from the numbers on the side. With bad visibility we had to get quite close before the number was legible but once they had it a second program on the pc which lists all commercially registered boat in the EU was used to get a name , port of origin and even a picture up on screen. This info is then logged as a sighting with a position.

As part of the paperwork Les and I recieve each quarter we get a list of sightings, boardings, anglers and cleekers checked along with warnings given and prosecutions pending. I asked what else happens with this info.

As part of Defra's monitoring all boats over 15.5m have to have a satelitte tracking system on board which sends data to a live screen in London where the information is monitored and compared with the catch returns sent in by the boats themselves. To compliment this data the SFC vessels log all boats they see, including under 15m boats and small pleasure craft. At the end of the day this sightings data is emailed direct from the boat to defra and entered manually onto the tracking system although the Fisheries officers did not know what was done with the data on RSA boats.

With the excitement over discussion turned to the way they operate and one thing that was made clear was that it was very hard to catch people breaking the rules, which requires in most cases a stealthy approach, when you are travelling around in a huge great black boat with Fisheries protection written on the side. In the olden days there were code words going out over the radio the minute the engines on the St oswald were started and stories of an elderly gentleman sat in his living room on the cliff top at North Shields with a Ship to Shore radio and accepting monthly contributions from commercial boats. These days things are far more subtle with the advent of mobile phones. This is where the shore based rib is particularly usefull as it is much faster and can be launched from anywhere. The new rib is far bigger and has a much greater range due to an onboard 350 litre fuel tank and is used for close in work inspecting pots and smaller craft.

The St Oswald is largely relied upon to provide a visible deterrent and one of the common offences it comes across are larger foreign boats heading inshore to port whilst still trawling with multi rigs which are banned within six miles. This is particularly common from now till Xmas when a large number of trawlers are expected in the region for the annual prawn fishery and the patrol boat spends much of its time running up and down the six mile limit to prevent this happening.

Other items discussed were the way their role is likely to change with the change of the Sea Fisheries Committee to an Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority ( IFCA). One of the proposals in the marine and coastal access bill is that the area covered will change from the LOW water mark to six miles to the HIGH water mark to six miles and possibly be extended to 12 miles. This would make the IFCA responsible for the regulation of bait collection amongst other things and could bring them into contact with far more shore anglers. Its clear that even now the resources of the protection officers are stretched for example they can only operate the Patrol vessel OR the rib but there are not enough staff to do both at once. There will be changes in the way IFCA's are funded and additional money made available to cover the cost of the additional burden. The current SFC are paid solely by the North Tyneside and Northumberland councils.

I also wanted to know what is involved when I read in the quarterly report " Anglers checked 157". I was recently out fishing with Richie and the shore based rib was out checking boats. They pulled up alongside every commercial boat around us but did not come over and inspect us. It would have been nice to experience an inspection at first hand but I am sure "The Boys" will let me know what its like ( more about that later )

They are looking for undersize fish not as many think salmon on board. Salmon are under the jurisdiction of the Enviromental Agency but this may change with proposal within the marine bill and the enforcement officers may become cross warranted. I believe the boat seen with the stealth rib at Blyth was the EA boat and think it may be linked to an operation they were undertaking close by in one of the esturies.

Reports of catches by anglers also feed through to the quarterly reports which are discussed at the meetings.

Another item dicussed was the contactability of the SFC officers. The NSFC has undergone an update on their website but the only way to contact them remains the office telephone which is manned during office hours. If people believe an offence is being committed they can leave a messaage at the office and they do look into any reports they recieve. They think an 0800 reporting line would be a good idea but have not got the resources to provide a 24/7 mmobile number.

So after a very welcome breakfast of muffins with scrambled egg and bacon and worsening weather coupled with a total lack of boats out we had reached Seaton Point and a U turn was made bringing us closer inshore and heading back to the Tyne. This is where things got really lumpy and uncomfortable and I for one was glad of the very comfy gas assisted seats in the cabin and Les went noticably quiet.

We eventually got back to the Tyne and the welcome calm of the piers. Travelling back up the Tyne I pointed out the boys on its mooring ...but I am not really sure why he wrote the name down in his book

We pulled onto the fuel berth at the RQ's and began to fill up. Just as we arrived the Sarah JFK pulled alongside to fuel up and went over to the other pontoon and tied up to wait their turn at the pumps. The main and header tanks were full but the port and starboard tanks were empty so filling began using the larger of the two fuel pumps. Whilst filling we had time to tour the boat, make a meal and a coffee and still had to wait 15 mins after we had eaten for the filling to finish. A total of 6400 litres were taken onboard ( over 6 tonnes of fuel! ) and all the time the Sarah JFK had to sit and wait...sorry about that.

All in all a very informative day out if only it wasn't quite so rough. I have been invited back to have a go in the rib and experience a boarding at sea....and if only the thing had flashing blue lights and Woo woo's it would be a childhood dream come true

Pics are still on my mobile but will download them after work and get them hosted somewhere.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Mike.Haley]

Sounds like you had a fun day out Dave, dispite the weather. Its a good job those lads do and I am sure a lot of people done't realise what goes on behind the scenes so a few pictures would be grateful.

 

[Topfly]

Great report Dave, and nice to hear of what the protection vessel actually does. Glad you and Les had the chance to go out on her.

 

[loopy]

Thanks for being so kind Dave, I have never been so ill in my life, fine going out and chatting away, egg and bacon muffins, saw them twice once on the way out and once on the way out again, via my mouth. The only picture I took was on dry land with the St Oswald returning to it's berth. A fantastic eye opener just a few guys and such a massive area to cover even with there technology. Getting evidence that will stand up in court is very hard and when you see the fines handed out by local magistrates it makes you wonder. never mind at least we have two RSA reps on the Northumberland SFC. Both Dave and I are committed to getting the North East Angler represented locally and nationally any of you guys individual members of Angling Trust ?

 

[mark]

ok, thought long and hard about wether to bother with a reply, but am gonna post what a few folks I've spoken to have been thinking/saying....

apart from some of the contradictions, a couple of things have bothered me

To compliment this data the SFC vessels log all boats they see, including under 15m boats and small pleasure craft. At the end of the day this sightings data is emailed direct from the boat to defra and entered manually onto the tracking system although the Fisheries officers did not know what was done with the data on RSA boats.

so how do they manage to identify all leisure craft then, given the vast majority have names written just a few inches high, no AIS transponders, GDMSS, or tracking systems, does almost seem a veiled threat there that the SFC is watching everyones movements.

I was recently out fishing with Richie and the shore based rib was out checking boats. They pulled up alongside every commercial boat around us but did not come over and inspect us. It would have been nice to experience an inspection at first hand but I am sure "The Boys" will let me know what its like ( more about that later )

go on then, tell us more about that?? seems to be an insinuated threat there almost, "the boys" is a leisure boat, - ie didn't get to board them, but have tipped the SFC off to keep an eye out for them and board them?? Explanation?? so not sure wether you are representing sea anglers here, Defra or what and why you appear to single out one particular boat?

Reports of catches by anglers also feed through to the quarterly reports which are discussed at the meetings.

and how does this happen then & who is informing them?

not looking to pick a fight here but can't get my head around the angles

you gonna get out with a trawler for a trip as well to get a balanced view out of interest?

 

[Mike.Haley]

Some very interesting questions there Mark. Will be very interested to see what replies you get (if any). George Orwell and 1984 spring to mind.

 

[davem2005]

When they can see a name on the boat they do log it down and include it within the data sent to the AIS monitoring station in London. The fisheries officers did not know what Defra do with the data that refers to non commercial boats but they are watching any fishing activity that takes place out to 6 miles, its not a veiled threat its what they get paid for and for the benefit of all.

It would have been nice to have gone out on a busier day to get a better idea of what they do rather than a day when just three vessels were seen in the whole trip. The main focus of the patrol boat is to monitor the larger vessels using the technology on board and visual sightings but they do take note of smaller vessels when they can see the names. The task of checking the smaller boats is left to the shore based rib but in my experience this boat seems to largely ignore RSA boats as I have never had an inspection from them. It would be intresting to know if any other forum members have had a visit from them and what it entailed. I do believe that Volante once had a visit from the NE SFC rib which entailed him making them a brew and having a chat. I have no objection to them collecting my boat name, much the same way as Tesco's log my car registration every time I enter their car park, but I will write to Defra and ask what they do with the info.

The reference to the boys was purely a reference that they posted on here a lot. Two of the Fishery officers are sea anglers and one is a member on this forum hence the discussion about membership here which happened to co-incide with us passing the boys mooring, no implication of any wrong doings just casual chat and the boys need have nothing to worry about. The fisheries officers can inpect any boat inside the 6 mile limit at any time and they are primarily looking for undersized fish which was the case with an RSA boat in Amble recently prosecuted for landing 35 undersize Coalies.

Your final question is one I was particularly hoping to get an answer to as I have never been stopped by the officers or spoken to anyone who has. The catch reports are mainly made up from reports by the shore patrols rather than gathered at sea. This also includes chats with charter skippers. I was told that they chat to anglers when checking cleekers on the rocks and these two means are the source of their quarterly reports split into the three regions. Please bear in mind this is not indepth data but is most often a sentence or two in the paragraph headed Divers Cleekers and Anglers.
[quote/] From the report for the quarter ending 31st march 2009

"There was plenty of shore angling taking place , especially over over low tides and after poor sea conditions. Shore catch reports were poor in general although of the few fish landed a few were in double figures , most of which were taken after dark"

I know Les spent a long time chatting about Tip Offs and Intelligence gathering in general. His interest in this comes from being a retired police man. The SFC do recieve tip offs, usually from the commercial fishing community where its clear there is not a perfect harmony amongst the different factions and ports. They do respond to these tip offs as they have done on the couple of occasions when I have contacted them regarding issues raised by people here on this forum.

From my own point of view I only have the interest of sea anglers at heart and having learnt how the SFC themselves work it was it was the next logical step to see how the enforcement arm of the SFC operate. The five full time officers and one part time one are all that stands between us as RSA's and a commercial free for all in our inshore waters. It was very clear that despite having some of the best equipment for the task the enforcement side was undermanned when you consider the huge area they have to cover and this is primarily due to funding issues.

RSa's need have nothing to fear from the Sea Fisheries officers providing they stick to the Bylaws of which only three apply to us.
1. Stick to the size limits.
2. Get tags for your pots if you want to use them and mark them up correctly.
3. Dont use edible crab as bait.

With regard to getting a balanced view on things I would like to go out on a trawler and see the other side of the coin, although this may be a bit more difficult to arrange.

As far as there being any "angles" to my post I assure you there are not, just a desire to find out what the SFC do for us and try and let others know. As Mike haley put it " a lot of people dont know what these guys do" and hopefully they now have a better idea.

 

[wildcard]

The problem with AIS is any commercial boat acting illegally will also be looking out for any fishery protection vessels in the area using their own AIS.

This would give them the name of the vessel, course and SOG etc within vhf range. Any vessel headed in their direction would be spotted and illegal catches could be dumped with time to spare.

A rib launched would also be spotted on radar.

You may as well ring the skipper up and tell him he will be boarded in half an hour. :exclam:

Alan

 

[davem2005]

I totally agree Alan.

This was discussed at length as the possibility for a stealthy approach in a huge black boat are Zero. But dont forget that boats that are of a size to require ais to be fitted are not allowed to fish within the six mile zone, enforcement on these boats is done by the MFA (Navy) boats and of course watched over by the satelitte tracking system itself. The size limit varies from region to region but in every case the 15.5 m boats are excluded from fishing within 6 miles. There are also HP limitations which is where the data on the register of fishing vessels comes in to check that a particular boat does not exceed the maximum permissible engine rating.

The main purpose of the SFC vessel as far as larger boats are concerned is as a deterent to "remind them " to lift their trawls before they enter the six mile zone. Pair trawling , multi rigging and using more than 10 dredges at once is banned within six miles.

Please note these are the rules for the NSFC which are slightly different for the NESFC who cover your region.

Cheers
Dave

 

[wildcard]

AIS can be fitted to any boat of any size though Dave so long as it is capable of receiving GPS and has radar. In effect for an outlay of £200, anyone wanting to break the law can watch fishery patrol vessels watching them and act accordingly. They could easily spot one from 20 miles away and would know exactly it's speed and heading and therefore it's crews intentions.

I was going to fit it to my boat but soon realised the downside - other charter angling boats could monitor where we are fishing and obtain our marks.

Alan

 

[ScottyJim]

Interesting report Dave. Couple of weeks past fishing off Amble on Upholder, seen the rib flying back and forward checking crab boats. Got a wave from the crew as it flew past us a couple of hundred metres away, but didn't stop. Probably knew they hadn't a chance of a cup of tea from Dave the skipper. I thought they were probably checking for undersize crabs/lobsters but surprisingly Dave suggested they might also be checking the pot bait for undersize fish. Never ever thought of that before, but I suppose it's quite logical. Local potters up here have to buy the scraps after the wholesalers have filleted the fish. I suppose it must be tempting to aquire a free box of undersize "discards" off a returning trawler for bait.
With such current financial constrictions, i'm surprised you went out at all. What was the cost off the "fill-up" ? You already said that commercial boats avoid fishing high tides, and the weather was too ropey for small boats. Would have made more sense to me to have waited a few days when there would have been more "trade" about for you and the crew. Just seems pointless cruising an empty sea.

 

[Mike.Haley]

Thanks for the answers Dave. It clears up a lot of questions except what defra do with the information regarding RSA's. Hopefully someone can get a response from them as to what happens to this info and how it is used. I dont like the idea of being spied on by anyone. If anyone wants to question what I am doing and they come to me and ask, then i will answer the question, but for someone to give information to another body regarding my actions without my knowledge is just not on.

 

[mark]

AIS can be fitted to any boat of any size though Dave so long as it is capable of receiving GPS and has radar. In effect for an outlay of £200, anyone wanting to break the law can watch fishery patrol vessels watching them and act accordingly. They could easily spot one from 20 miles away and would know exactly it's speed and heading and therefore it's crews intentions.

Alan

you can fit AIS with neither GPS nor radar, although the gps would make it easier to chase someone

I was going to fit it to my boat but soon realised the downside - other charter angling boats could monitor where we are fishing and obtain our marks.
Alan

all you need to do that is a Class A DSC radio and the mmsi number of any boats out there, and you can get anyone's mmsi off the internet