Fox Hunting Ban

[CJS]

Answer \'bribones\'. Not sure if you are with me or against mate? All I say is, let the hunt \'hunt,\' I am a fisherman, who am I to pint the finger. However, I have seen these profesionals rifal hunters at work. The names are given for identification purposes, they actualy set a spacific fox up (old, trouble maker, sick etc), over a few nights, I presume others (culling) are taken on presentation. I am against the barbaric tearing apart of the fox when caught.

So, whats the answer? One presumes the thrill is in the chase, thats what a fox hunter would have us believe, 99.9% of a hunts activity is the chase, I can imagine, its like the buzz I get when stalking trout or bass, the old heart is going like a steam hammer as you watch a fish chasing a lour or fly. The trouble is the fox quary is not food, true it wrecks other food, ie livestock, but foxy is to die very painfully for no good reason conected with hunting.

The hunts are complainin of loosing livleyhoods, fair coment. Why not put the killing of foxes on a humane plain, and have the job done properly, create jobs!! For their thrills, the hunt could go on drag. Drag hunting will give all the thrills and spills of the persuit, without the gory end. Jobs are maintained, foxes are kept undercontrol humainly, everyone is happy. As has been mentioned, some individuals even maintain the double thrill of night stalking with a gun, and the thrill of the chase on horseback, and a glass or two beforhand.

Dont want to do it that way! then I question the motivation of why people hunt foxes?

Presuming we all like our fish and chips, and occasionaly we do buy from the chippy, Ever thought about the way comercial fish are caught and treated, draged along in a net, hauled from the depths, droped onto the boats deck and left to suffocate in air, and then gutted oly half dead. Better not let the anti hunt lobby grt their heads around that one. Howabout long lining, take a bait on a long line traped by the mouth foe X hours and probaly treated the same as the trawled fish one on deck, Just a thought?
CJS

CJS

[alan]

This my feelings,i have read the posts which are great,probably the best i\'ve seen on here.
Until a few years ago i was totally anti hunting,we started holidaying in Scotland on a regular basis a good few years ago and my feelings started changing,i got to know people who live on farms and are employed in farming related jobs,until then i knew very little about rural life and imparticular farm life,I have witnessed the deverstation foxes and birds of prey have caused on farms,they muterlate lambs and poultery and leave there bodies normally without eating them (foxes).The farm we stay on breeds ######## (i\'ll not say what as you could narrow it down which farm it is if you read my other posts) the farmer still shoots foxes on his land,he and his wife work seven days a week 365 days a year,if the fox gets into his ####### it would wipe out months of work,I have discussed hunting with him in the past and he says it still goes on in Scotland \"its a way of life and its our life\" he says the big \"hunts\" are now gone apart from the Coldstream hunt which crosses over the border and hunts on this side,he says Townies have\'nt got a clue all they see is the lovely little red fox minding its own business,how wrong they are..........the vast majority of people that hunt are working class people and the anti\'s think they are toffs because of there dress and lol four wheel drive cars etc etc,you ever driven over rough land in a micra,we also talked about guns,he reckons every farm has got a gun,the police know as well but they are\'nt bothered they would rather make real money and stop motorists,he compares taking guns off farmers to \"taking a boat off a fishermen\" its a tool.
Most or all towns and cities are plaqued with rats (remember the news recently re-Shields,Fish quay,Middens etc) foxes are vermin like rats but Joe public would\'nt bat an eye lid if the local council came along and left rat poison out to kill them,\"get the dirty #uckers away from me\".wheres all the anti\'s defending the rats lmfao.
I can\'t condone Badger baiting which is barbaric and is normally carried out by innner city,can\'t think of the word to describe them,########,shtie.
I recently discussed game fishing when i was in Scotland with a few people and they are really concerned that the anti\'s might pick up on that as well but like its discussed on here it generates vast amounts of money,i don\'t need to mention where the money goes etc etc as you lot know alott more about fishing than me,it goes from the top to the bottom.
Imo I respect the rural way of life and i hope they respect mine,some of the ways people hunt maybe out of date or politically incorrect or damn right shocking but so is kicking the life out of a puppy or doing terrible things to children,why not knock on there doors..........please.......
the above is just my opinion and experience and things i have witnessed,hope i make sense as i have just come nightshift
John Smith is knocking on the fridge door so i must see what he wants.

[bribones]

cjs ,sorry m8 misread your post ,i agree with the shooting and i suppose as its more personal ie hands on they could name them , a bit silly though two big blokes with a gun going hunting for fluffy

[CJS]

\'Bribones\', does seem a bit strange to make it personal, however, every fox is diferent, all look the same to us, but as with all wild life, there are subtle diferences. This way, the job becomes efficient and profesional. As I have said, I come from country stock, many years ago, as a young\'un, I remember watching the hunt, they used to meet at the local village pub, the \'Cricketers\' in Redbourn, Hertfordshire, drinks all round etc. Ironic realy, the landscape in the area was lika big bowl, the hut was often easy to follow across \'Artops\' fields.

One has to be honest, and ask the question, in the 21st centuary, is hunting for anything, other than \'for the pot\' right? Trophy hunting of lions and tigers? we dont do that any more, apart from with a camera. Fishing? I can come to terms with the catch it, pic and release, although I can see where the anti lobby are coming from. Sea and game fishing is for me, not a problem, I do eat most of what I catch. There are alternitives for the hunter, and humane alternatives for control of the pray? That said, I am very much lefts sitting on the fence, country bourn and bred, a fisherman, and believing strongly in my individual rights.

Perhaps we should be more concrened about the conditions and the way some of our farmed livestock are treated, the way people treat animals for the pet trade. For that fact the way some people treat their pets. When you boil it down, we are still a prity barbaric race, we do a lot of papering over the cracks and \'not in my backyard\'! How about the lories full of chickens in cramped plastic trays. We have all seen them, suffered the feathers that are blown out, 60mph, wind whistling throught the holes, not a pleasent experience which ever way you look at it. Bet some of us are going to sit down to a Sunday roast chicken, Supermarket special \'2 for the price of 1\' . . . Even if those chucs\' are only for the fetilizer factory, they are still alive, well they were when they were pened up!

I am sure there is lots of good husbandry around . . . . am I muddying the water . . . ? Double standards, on both sides of the fence . . . ? Yeh\' we still have a long way to go.

CJS

[Red5]

Foxes have exactly the same mentality as humans when it comes to a bounty of food, instead of taking one they seem to take everything, which for a an uneducated fox is natural. For a human however to do the same i.e catch 20-30 fish and then wonder what they are gonna do with them is unacceptable. How amny times have you been on a boat or pier and watch someone catch loads and then chuck the dead fish away or leave it in their freezer for 2 years b4 chucking them. What of the images in the sea angling amgazines where totally unedible fish are pictured in someones back garden?
If the framer takes decent precautions on his chicken runs then foxes shouldn\'t be a problem. As for sheep maybe it\'s the weak lame ones which have been left hobbling around in agony with foot rot that are taken, as would be by any other predator. They go for the weak and infirm because they have less chance of inflicting damage upon themselves and therefore easier to catch.
Again as I have stated b4 if a fox is a problem shoot it. most anti hunting with dogs people don\'t disagree with the fact that foxes need to be controlled, it\'s the way it\'s done. Hares and deer don\'t attack livestock and yet they are persecuted in the same way. How common are hares now? Intensive farming has destroyed their environment along wiht miilions of birds. Oh sorry magpies are to blame there????? Or anyother creature that can be blamed for the landowners mismanagement. How about birds of prey? Poisoned and shot by gamekeepers to protect pheasants and grouse. Why can\'t they live alongside them instead of trying to create a monoculture where only humans and sheep/cows live on a patchwork of barren grass and featureless views?

[CJS]

You got a point Red5 ! ! ! Live and let live, with a bit of ducking and diving? The one about to many fish, we have all seen the pics in the mags of loads of dead and often inedible fish, for what, a competition prooving what? A hint of getting ones own house in order there, \'them in glass houses . . . etc\'
CJS

[jethro18]

Went and did a bit of course fishing today, and guess what?? I was annoyed by 4 of the scruffiest looking specimens I have ever had the mis-pleasure to meet. They tried to disrupt my session by throwing stones in the swim and shouting some sort of stupid protest.
Let them get on with it for 5 minutes, then saw them off with my trustie catty and the odd 1/4 oz ardsley bomb...
I think they wanted the water to get a bath in...............(dirty B******s)

Be careful out there lads....

[willywetegg]

Be careful how you deter these people they will get you on video and use it in court. The sad thing about it is it doesn\"t seem to matter what they do to you. Rise above it, walk away but take photographs of them. Remember their faces.

Jim.

[jethro18]

Probably right Jim, but you know what its like mate...seeing red etc.....But I\'ll take youre advice mate next time.....

Jethro

[willywetegg]

There have been lots of times when I should have walked away. Some times you can\"t walk away I know. The last time that happened to me I really wished I had. Luckily for me it all worked out ok.

Jim.

[sage]

while trawling old posts about various things i came across this subject....
well the so called "Fox Hunting Ban " ban hasnt affected fishing at all... in fact it hasnt really affected "hunting with dogs" as the act was called i think ....

although as predicted by some people the fox numbers would increase and become a bit of a problem.... not in the way people thought tho... you dont expect the problem being foxes savaging babies and attacking people!!!!

hunting still takes place in a slightly different format.....although dogs are still used ...they now drive foxes to guns to be shot.... that is.... all foxes shot... young , old, healthy and infirm.... the gun takes no prisoners!!!!

previously the majority of pack caught only the naive, injured, infirm foxes which were causing problems to livestock, fowl etc... fit healthy foxes escaped and went to ground... even then sometimes they were dug to and despatched with a licenced handgun ...at the landowners request..

before the ban i also can also say that i have witnessed a pack of hounds kill a fox... it was very quick .. well to say a pack is wrong really.. the leading hound caught it and shook it ... it was dead before another dog got anywhere near it... after killing it ...it just stood over it ...
strange i thought but then it was dismembered by the rest of the hounds...when they caught up... so was it cruel what i saw !!!! no i dont think so... it was killed instantly... but it was a bit disturbing to see a pack pull a dead fox to bits.... even tho i couldnt see that happen in the middle of the pack actually .. it was my imagination that gave me a vivid disturbing picture!!!

i think the main people who have been affected by the "hunting ban" are the lurcher and coursing lads the "poachers".. not the so called posh "hunting set"

the lads who ran one dog against a hare... be it gamboling or pest control... they get the big fines, dogs and even cars confiscated, and driving bans....
but now even they can do it legally where they have permission to be on the land... they shoot the hare and use the dog to retrieve the wounded animal.. as allowed within the terms of the "Law"
imagine the following scenario...a hare is shot at, the shooter thinks its been hit .. a swift running dog is released to retrieve the "wounded hare"... totally legal....
so if you think logically about the "Hunting Ban" which the labour goverment brought in... its been virtually complete waste of time.... and more so money..

the people who were hunting with dogs illegally before the ban are still doing it illegally after the ban .... so no change there !!!
and the people who were legally hunting with dogs before the ban can still hunt legally with dogs after the ban!!!! so no change there either!!!

now is that mad or what..... maybe even mad dogs and englishmen reversed... dogs and mad englishmen ( politicians)

just something to think about
cheers
Paul

[Red5]

while trawling old posts about various things i came across this subject....
well the so called "Fox Hunting Ban " ban hasnt affected fishing at all... in fact it hasnt really affected "hunting with dogs" as the act was called i think ....

although as predicted by some people the fox numbers would increase and become a bit of a problem.... not in the way people thought tho... you dont expect the problem being foxes savaging babies and attacking people!!!!

hunting still takes place in a slightly different format.....although dogs are still used ...they now drive foxes to guns to be shot.... that is.... all foxes shot... young , old, healthy and infirm.... the gun takes no prisoners!!!!

previously the majority of pack caught only the naive, injured, infirm foxes which were causing problems to livestock, fowl etc... fit healthy foxes escaped and went to ground... even then sometimes they were dug to and despatched with a licenced handgun ...at the landowners request..

before the ban i also can also say that i have witnessed a pack of hounds kill a fox... it was very quick .. well to say a pack is wrong really.. the leading hound caught it and shook it ... it was dead before another dog got anywhere near it... after killing it ...it just stood over it ...
strange i thought but then it was dismembered by the rest of the hounds...when they caught up... so was it cruel what i saw !!!! no i dont think so... it was killed instantly... but it was a bit disturbing to see a pack pull a dead fox to bits.... even tho i couldnt see that happen in the middle of the pack actually .. it was my imagination that gave me a vivid disturbing picture!!!

i think the main people who have been affected by the "hunting ban" are the lurcher and coursing lads the "poachers".. not the so called posh "hunting set"

the lads who ran one dog against a hare... be it gamboling or pest control... they get the big fines, dogs and even cars confiscated, and driving bans....
but now even they can do it legally where they have permission to be on the land... they shoot the hare and use the dog to retrieve the wounded animal.. as allowed within the terms of the "Law"
imagine the following scenario...a hare is shot at, the shooter thinks its been hit .. a swift running dog is released to retrieve the "wounded hare"... totally legal....
so if you think logically about the "Hunting Ban" which the labour goverment brought in... its been virtually complete waste of time.... and more so money..

the people who were hunting with dogs illegally before the ban are still doing it illegally after the ban .... so no change there !!!
and the people who were legally hunting with dogs before the ban can still hunt legally with dogs after the ban!!!! so no change there either!!!

now is that mad or what..... maybe even mad dogs and englishmen reversed... dogs and mad englishmen ( politicians)

just something to think about
cheers
Paul

Being as it isn't policed I have been informed off people within the hunting group that foxes aren't chased to ground and shot but are still killed by the hounds.
Regarding Hares, on the plus side, this animal was becoming a bit of a rarity due to poaching etc, but am glad to see that it seems to have recovered remarkably well where I live, as in the past I may only have seen one or two a year, whereas now they are once again a common site and could easily have seen dozens this year!