Fox Hunting Ban

[BriH]

Well here we go AGAIN -the Clowns that \"rule\" - us are again voting to ban fox hunting -but this time they reckon it will be passed - so watch the telly lads and I BET you the Country folk mention FISHING as they try to bring some form of comparison to thier grievance- AND BEFORE i get slaughtered for being Anti Fox Hunting -I Am not Fussed either way-never been on one and dont understand the \"rules\" so dont get involved -but i have spoke to people that do Hunt and they ALWAYS try to Bring me on their side BECAUSE i go Fishing - strange but true, so as i said earlier watch the outcome on the telly when its passed.

[bribones]

they could always introduce a catch and return policy lol not that the fox will be in any fit state,i think this ones been round the block a few times on the forum but what the hell,theres no comparison, i eat what i catch or i return it ,now if theres a market out there for fox meat then hey im all for it,if they wanna call it pest control fine hunt em and shoot em,im not fussed either way but to me its just a rich bloke saying hey look how many dogs ive got,it doesnt serve any purpose other than sport and a cruel one at that

[willywetegg]

Yes Bri I will be watching this with interest. As soon as they are finished with the hunting fraternity they will be turning their attention to us.

Jim.

[Red5]

They will never ban fishing as it is mans way of hunting to survive along with shooting.
Hunting with dogs is a completely different matter as an animal is being chased down for the pure enjoyment of people who belive themselves to be above all else. \'Oh dear I might lose my job and house\'. I bet they shed lots of tears at the tens of thousands of miners and shipyard workers who lost theirs.
\'We shall break the law as they are infringing our human rights\'. Would they have the same opinion of the burglar nicking their 4x4\'s who may also belive he has human rights or would they want to get out a shotgun to shoot the oik.
\'Ah the dogs will have to be put down\'. What of the thousands of dogs who are dispatched with a bullet to the back of the head because they serve no more use once they can\'t keep up with the pack. That\'s loyalty for you.
Would supporters feel the same if youths were kicking hedgehogs or squirrels around or throwing darts at frogs. I can\'t see how we afford so much protection to domestic animals and let people do just about whatever they want to our wildlife which seems to be coming rarer by the day.
Like Bribones says if a fox is a problem...shoot it!

[Ell]

Well said Red

[Chippy]

I have no particular opinion either way, I don\'t hunt and know nobody who does although it does seems a touch barbaric and I agree with Red\'s comments. Anyway my point is, with education/health/transport in crisis, our soldiers and Iraqi civilians dying in Iraq, war on terror, a pension crisis etc etc, hasn\'t the Government not got better things to spend its time worrying about than the fate of hunting with dogs.
Don\'t kid yourselves though that angling is safe. Once these people have got hunting banned, they will turn their attention onto something else. You only have to see the fuss created over vivesection to see that some people would rather see humans hurt than infringe an animial\'s \'rights\'.

[micky-quayle]

the antis never seem to see the big picture be it fox hunting or angling. with fox hunting they always advocate that there are many other more humane ways of controlling fox numbers. what they don\'t seem to appreciate is the vast majority of fit and healthy foxes manage to hunt wild animals and never need to bother farmers, the foxes that tend to hang around farms looking for easy pickings tend to be the old, weak and sickly foxes. fox hunting is very selective in that the majority of hunts are unsuccessful with most young fit foxes escaping but the older, weaker and sickly ones caught, the very animals which cause problems. remember a fox hunt only has two outcomes, a kill or the fox escaping unharmed, this can not be said of other metods such as shooting where injured animals can have a slow lingering death from gangreen and the like. ive heard them also advocate birth control by leaving meat inpregnated with a birth control pill where foxes are prevalent, this is indiscriminate and can be eaten by many other animals.
angling is no doubt on the antis agenda and no doubt their views will be as totally irrational as they are with fox hunting, we need to give the fox hunters our total support remember we are next in the firing line, i dont for one minuite think they could ever totally ban angling but they could certainly become a major pain in the butt.
if you want evidence that we are next in the firing line vist this website !
http://www.fishinghurts.com/
the scary thing is these anti angling groups are well financed and are becoming a lot more organised. the first group of angles to be hit will be the course anglers, already these groups have had limited sucess in for example getting livebaiting banned in certain areas, its the thin edge of the wedge i\'m afraid, they will keep slowly gaining ground and eroding our rights. a firm stand needs to be taken, conceed NO ground to the antis.
rant over.........

[micky-quayle]

just had a good read of the website i mentioned in the above post
http://www.fishinghurts.com/
if you haven\'t already have a look, what sort of planet are these nuts on, scary stuff !

[willywetegg]

No Red5 I don\"t think that fishing ever will be banned. What I meant by we are next is the anti\"s. You believe me mate we are next as far as they are concerned.
That website makes wonderful reading Micky thanks for posting it mate.

Jim.

[jethro18]

I think they should save the foxes and start to hunt paedophiles insted....Dont think there would be much of an out cry then do you????...

[bribones]

haha dear me talk about nutters

fish are sensitive, they have personalities,

last one i seen had the personality of a cooked dinner

[Red5]

There may be some irrational people out there who think that they will ban angling and shooting but I would doubt it will ever be in my lifetime.
If fox hunting is so humane and the fox either gets away or it doesn\'t then that surely counters the argument that it is a good method of control. If you are controlling fox numbers then why would you let a fox go? The truth is you don\'t, you have terrier men who dig the creature out and after sending a small dog down the fox hole and then club the fox with the spade you used to dig it out. Why dio hunts create artificial lairs and habitats for foxes to thrive if it is a method of control?
A recent report of a young lad being shot dead while shooting foxes described lamping as a MAJOR countryside past-time yet we are led to believe that this is a cruel way of controlling a species because the fox can be injured and can escape to die a slow lingering death. Then if it is cruel then why do farmers allow this to go on on their land, or pheasant/grouse shooting for that matter?Are we to ban people shooting rabbits, rats, magpies and crows for control as surely that is cruel. Surely we should train dogs to catch these species as it\'s more humane?
People who complain of more important issues say why are we deailing with this, well if the self serving landowners in the house of lords did\'nt keep delaying the ban then we wouldn\'t still be discussing this 7 years after it was originally proposed.
This is not just about toffs chasing foxes, what about the hare which was once a common sight yet seeing one now is about as rare as rocking horse sh**e. Would you be happy to see some bloke with a couple of pit bulls walking around your town centre setting his dogs onto old Mrs Browns little Yorkie? No! There is a picture of a 4 week old Lab puppy in the paper which had to be put to sleep coz young kids used it as a football. Is that acceptable?No! All life should be respected and only dispensed of in the most humane manner .
I\'ll deal with the angling anti\'s IF and when they ever approach me.

[micky-quayle]

red5, fox hunting with hounds will never significantly reduce overall fox numbers, what it will do however is erradicate individual problem foxes. fox hunting with dogs is very selective as opposed to other methods which are much more indescriminate. most farmers don\'t mind foxes as long as they are not harming their stock. if fox hunting were to be banned you would actually see a big decline in fox numbers in certain areas as farmers would turn to other indescriminate methods such as poisoning, i know that sounds a little perverse but that is what would ultimately happen.
here another anti angling website you should all read
http://fishing.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pisces.demon.co. uk%2Fsabbing.html
click the back to index link near the bottom of the page to view more articles on this site.
this group is a lot more sinister than the ones on the other website, real nasty lot these are, been alleged to use violence on several occassions, although they deny this.

[Edited on 15/9/2004 by micky-quayle]

[Edited on 15/9/2004 by micky-quayle]

[micky-quayle]

LMFAO at this. read some of there sabbing techniques, priceless

\"Why Sab Angling?
Anglers are unfortunately famous for denying the wealth of scientific evidence showing that fish suffer when caught with rod, line and hook. Although an increasing number of people are realising the barbarity of this popular bloodsport, it will take a long time before angling ceases. The only way to stop suffering being inflicted on fish now, is to use non-violent tactics to directly intervene to stop angling. The tactics given below have been developed primarily for coarse fishing, although many of them would work equally well for sea or game fishing.
The Tactics
Match Angling
How to find out about matches:

In angling magazines.

Fishing tackle shops may have posters/noticeboards and lists of local club fixtures, usually given out on request.

Some local newspapers and radio stations have angling features.
At matches, the section of bankside to be fished is divided into \'pegs\', at least 15 yards apart. Some waters have permanent pegs. Others are marked out and numbered the night before or the morning of the match. The anglers arrive 1-2 hours before the match to draw for peg numbers then go to their allocated peg to set up. The match is started and ended by a signal, usually a whistle. The anglers fish for 3-5 hours to catch the highest weight of fish which are retained in a keepnet. At the end of the match the fish are weighed then released. The winner receives a prize - money and possibly a trophy.
Before the match, do the following:


Ring up the organiser (see above for how to get the phone number) and book a peg. You could ask for directions to the venue or, to sound more convincing, ask about bait bans (e.g. bloodworm,joker,wasp grub).

Removing or changing around the peg numbers on the morning or the night before the match will cause confusion and maybe confrontation amongst the anglers.

Wire up access gates to the water.

Talk to local anglers on the same water or in tackle shops to find out the best day, weather conditions and stretch of water to fish from so you will know when and where to concentrate your sabbing.
During the match, do the following:

Blow a whistle 10-15 minutes before the start of the match is due to begin. Some anglers may start fishing and be disqualified. Blow a whistle again near the end of the match. Some anglers may pack up early.

Row up and down the river in a canoe or boat to prevent the anglers from casting or make them reel in. Go near to the line / float and disturb the surface of the water with the paddle to scare fish away.

Swimming, wading or splashing your feet in the water (wetsuits, waders, wellies advisable depending on weather conditions!) to stop anglers casting and to scare away the fish. If you can, remove line from water, but be very careful not to break it or damage any other tackle.

Making noise in the water by submerging metal objects (e.g., dustbin lid and spanner) and banging them together will scare away fish. Equally, make noise above the water with whistles, shouting, airhorns, hunting horns, etc. This has the added bonus of annoying the angler and detracting from the enjoyment of the \"sport\".

Talking to anglers may disturb their concentration. Get factsheets from Pisces to be able to argue against them. (Not difficult!)

Standing behind anglers can make casting more difficult and your shadow on the water may scare away the fish, especially when the water is clear and still.

Use poles, (e.g., long bamboo canes), to disturb the float and/or line. Try to lift the float and/or line out of the water, but again be careful not to break the line or damage the float.

Use high powered water pistols aimed at the anglers float/line to encourage him/her to remove the tackle from the water.

Empty keepnets. Ideally with 2 people who are in the water. Some keepnets have removable bottoms held on with clips. Others have only one way in or out - at the top. Ensure that the fish will exit the net downstream. Keep the net submerged at all times and do not touch the fish. Move the keepnet in such a way as to encourage the fish to swim out without touching the mesh. If in doubt do not attempt it, as keepnets can do a great deal of damage to fish.
Specimen and Pleasure Angling
Pleasure anglers are easier to sab as they may be present in smaller numbers and are more likely to pack up, as they are out for relaxation, peace and quiet. Use the tactics shown above plus when you first arrive, explain to the anglers why you are there to made them aware of your purpose:- Erect \"No Fishing - Contaminated Water\" signs or similar. Make them look as professional as possible with the name and address of the regional river authority.
ALSO: Clean up any litter and discarded fishing tackle. If left, this could injure or kill fish, birds and animals. We are the conservationists not the anglers who leave all this mess behind them.

ALSO: Take a camera with you to get pictures of dead fish, poor handling of fish, tackle victims, discarded tackle in the river, trees, etc, poor emptying of keepnets. Send any photos to Pisces. They could be good evidence to be used in a campaign to get a local ban or restriction.

WARNING!!

DO NOT take dogs/pets to the bankside. They are in danger from hooks, line and discarded tackle.

DO NOT pre-feed. Putting food in the water attracts the fish. Furthermore, any food not eaten would rot and pollute the water.

DO NOT throw tackle in the water. It is a danger to fish, birds and animals. Maggots will drown in the water.

DO NOT break fishing line for the same reasons.

DO NOT throw large stones in the water as there is the tiny risk of actually hitting a fish. Small pebbles also shouldn\'t be used as fish may confuse them with the ground bait anglers use to attract fish.

We would appreciate any other ideas you have on sabbing coarse, game or sea fishing. \"

[TC]

Just thought this didn\'t sit right in the \"SHORE FISHING\" forum....