Tribute to Mandela

[kayos]

rhetoric aside, bring it closer to home and how would folks be feeling in gerry adams or martin mcguiness pegged it and the media became obsessed with it, endless rounds of 'they were men of peace did great things' etc

no difference. a terrorist is a terrorist and those 2 lads are amateur by comparison to mandela

I think it is a very thin line between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. Mandela was definitely involved to some extent in bombings, murder etc. However it was done in his own country with the goal of taking back control of their country which had been stolen from them by mainly the British and Dutch.

When South Africa was created by a British Act of Union in the early 1900's it provided that indigenous people could only own 7% of land. Remember this was their own country yet they had 93% of land denied to them and taken by Europeans, hence all those farms. To fight against such oppression is a freedom fighter for me, who may use heinous crimes to achieve a goal, in this case, of retrieving their country that absolutely belonged to them.

Where I think it becomes terrorism is for instance 9/11. That was dressed up as a cause by Bin Laden, but in reality it had no real goal other than creating terror. Nineteen of the bombers were Saudi Arabian, so what exactly was their cause?

Of course it seems that the people who died in SA were innocent civilians at times, but if they are a product of a group of people who took over the country by force all those years ago and determined to keep hold of it, can they be truly classed as innocent?

[Winton]

Spot on m8

[Davey1970]

Aye alright pal I only sent you a private message because I didnt want you thinking that I was a racist when I aint nothing could be further from the truth I respect ya views even thou they aint the same I didnt appreciate ya comment like but no harm done.

ok, we both have different view's on an old man dying.
if you were stood in front of me a would still tell you the same.
then when we were done and dusted, shake your hand.
that's what bloke's do.

[mick303]

I think it is a very thin line between a freedom fighter and a terrorist. Mandela was definitely involved to some extent in bombings, murder etc. However it was done in his own country with the goal of taking back control of their country which had been stolen from them by mainly the British and Dutch.

When South Africa was created by a British Act of Union in the early 1900's it provided that indigenous people could only own 7% of land. Remember this was their own country yet they had 93% of land denied to them and taken by Europeans, hence all those farms. To fight against such oppression is a freedom fighter for me, who may use heinous crimes to achieve a goal, in this case, of retrieving their country that absolutely belonged to them.

Where I think it becomes terrorism is for instance 9/11. That was dressed up as a cause by Bin Laden, but in reality it had no real goal other than creating terror. Nineteen of the bombers were Saudi Arabian, so what exactly was their cause?

Of course it seems that the people who died in SA were innocent civilians at times, but if they are a product of a group of people who took over the country by force all those years ago and determined to keep hold of it, can they be truly classed as innocent?

so are you of the same opinion with northen Ireland and the ira and the likes? that theyre freedom fighters and not terrorists? because the situations are very similar if you ask me. are the innocent people who have been killed or maimed in bomb attacks in recent years not so innocent and rarther guilty through association because of what their ancesters may have done over 500 years ago? seems a bit unfair if that is the case. not looking for an argument mate, just a debate, although im not very good at either.

[kayos]

so are you of the same opinion with northen Ireland and the ira and the likes? that theyre freedom fighters and not terrorists? because the situations are very similar if you ask me. are the innocent people who have been killed or maimed in bomb attacks in recent years not so innocent and rarther guilty through association because of what their ancesters may have done over 500 years ago? seems a bit unfair if that is the case. not looking for an argument mate, just a debate, although im not very good at either.

Well I don't want to get into that argument on here mate. I would say though that Northern Ireland was annexed in 1921 I think, less than 100 years ago, not 500!

[Davey1970]

I would never say that m8, many a friend killed on service in Ireland , afghan and the faulkland's.
there's still another man dead.

[mick303]

Well I don't want to get into that argument on here mate. I would say though that Northern Ireland was annexed in 1921 I think, less than 100 years ago, not 500!

aye but as the song goes " for 500 years we've fought you without fear and we will fight you for 500 more" so the "troubles" started way before 1921!

[mick303]

I would never say that m8, many a friend killed on service in Ireland , afghan and the faulkland's.
there's still another man dead.

without a doubt Davey, don't get me wrong, I think you've got to respect a man(mandela) who fights for his beleafs but he was a terrorist in my opinion

[mick303]

Well I don't want to get into that argument on here mate. I would say though that Northern Ireland was annexed in 1921 I think, less than 100 years ago, not 500!

and sorry kayos not sure if you read my last post right mate but I did say im not looking for an argument

[kayos]

and sorry kayos not sure if you read my last post right mate but I did say im not looking for an argument

I know you are not mate. I just think Ireland is far too close to home to debate on here.

[Davey1970]

if it's ok with all you gent's, if you agree, we could put the mandela, terrorist, Ireland, war and whatever 2 bed.
he`s dead, that's done.
thank's

[mick303]

I know you are not mate. I just think Ireland is far too close to home to debate on here.

but very similar situations though mate, some people would say the troubles in northen Ireland are the same as the struggle against apartiet in south Africa, and some people are saying that mandela was a saint but that the ira are terrorists but the truth of the matter is theyre the same weather you view them as freedom fighters or terrorists theyre the same, know what I mean mate? im guessing you've got green eyes???

[mick303]

if it's ok with all you gent's, if you agree, we could put the mandela, terrorist, Ireland, war and whatever 2 bed.
he`s dead, that's done.
thank's

aye nee bother Davey, your right mate tis the season to be jolly, peace on earth mate, peace on earth. cheers mick.

[Winton]

Well in the eyes of many the uk usa are terrorists 10 plus years in afgahn to achieve sweet **** all

[Winton]

If every act of peaceful defiance is met with violence and death at every turn can we blame people for fighting back agaisnt it