20 years to the day-ish Miners Stike

[Ell]

Here\'s to all the lads and lasses that stuck it out! Heroes and Heroines one and all, and to each and everyone that supported the struggle. And a big **** you to them that didn\'t! we\'re all paying the price now.

[mark]

Ok, In principal I whole heartedly support the miners, then and now, however some of em got what they deserved. I was at college in Doncaster at the time, the college building tucked neatly between the NCB headquarters, Police station and magistrates. Every morning I ran te gauntlet to get to college. I had bricks thrown at me, was spat at, had turds thrown at me by the \'peacefull protest\' taking palce daily outside the NCB/plod shop.

Now for the bi some of you might be a little \'uncomfortable\' with! Next to thatcher the miners second worst enemy was scargill. He made enemies of everyone - including the media. If he had allowed them in the media would have changed the whole dispute. Instead he insisyted they not be allowed on or near picket lines and those that got too close suffered a similar fate - not good PR. If scargill/thatcher\'s personailities had not been at such odds, the industry might of least had a fighting chance, and allowed to grow old and lie down with the edignity it deserved. Funny how scargill drew his full NUM salary throught the dispute though

To Make mattersworse, I was living in Nottinghamshire at the time, just over the border, close to west burton power station, so every night was stopped and interrogated by mr plod and his roving band of hooligans - mostly from the met, interested only in the money and the chance of kicking some poor sod in the head. The same coppers every night the same mickey taking and same questions - Hopefully they will all have terminal cancer by now.

It the nearest I ever came to living in a war zone

[TC]

Mark, I don\'t think it was their personalities which were \"at odds\".

In many respects, I think their personalities were very similar, if not identicle. Only their objectives were different.

[DaveMason]

Mark,

Just a quick reply to your post . Do you believe if the N.U.M had let the press in to the lines ( Sun -Star and all the rest of the garbage ) it would of made any difference at all . The die was cast for all out war , the mine closures were also a sideline if the truth was known . The union MOVEMENT was the real target . The result of which we can all share by having the longest working hours in Europe and the least rights than any other EEC country . On the anniversary of the strike oddly enough , I had the privelidge to work with the vice-president of Redbrook colliery , Barnsley . Bless him

Where did you read Scargill was drawing full salary Mark ???

[mark]

Ultimately, we would have lost the pits anyway, I beleive that was the agena from the outset. I honestly beleive If the NUM had handled the situation better with regard to the media, The death of the industry may have been less sudden, with pits/communities given valuable time to adjust. The war was on from day 1 - not between the miners and the government but between scargill and Thatcher.

Both of whom are/were too bloddy minded to try and negotitate so the battle lines were drawn at an all or nothing scenario. Unfortunately, the industry got nothing.

My impression throughout the dispute from TV and newspapers was that the striking miners were a bunch of anarchist hooligans, which was totally untrue, ok there was a minority, but most were honest decent working men wanting nothing more than to protect their livelihoods. You didn\'t see much of that side of things in the media. Just the flying pickets and rioting.

I\'m also sure the government were mad keen on spinning the media to ge that angle portrayed as widely as possible in the media. If the NUM weren\'t responsive to the media to counter those stories, then only a distorted picture was being broadcast. Mandleson & Campbell would have been proud to have masterminded a media campaign as successful in portraying all miners and the NUM as the big bad oppresors.

I was in the thick of it daily and it is/was truly heartbreaking to see what the ordinary guy went through.

In terms of how important the media can be look at the recent fire brigade dispute, the media were welcomed by the FBU and kept alongside at all times. Their support from the nation reached mucher higher levels.

Make no bones about it the miners dispute changed the not only the union movement in this country but the political landscape worldwide, and not for the better. I beleive and hope that there will be a re-surgence of the trade union movement in this century as the balance desperatley needs redressing. We live nowin a world where joe public comes a very poor third place behind profits and the shareholder.

The pea sized optimism department of my brain beleives that you can sort most things out as long as you keep talking. Don\'t forget the strike took place without a national ballot and the NUM leadership were entrenched with their demands and were not willing to negotiate - neither was thatch.

as for Arthurs pay packet, it was widely reported at the time in the doncaster evening star that he still drew his salary, which if memory serves me right was quite considerable at the time.

[Ell]

Mark, are you suggesting that Thatcher would have negotiated with a more media freindly / cuddly type union boss. She would have steam rollered right over them in seconds. One reason the strike was lost was because of the lack of support from the Union Movement as a whole. Witness the disgusting sell out of the workers at Grunwick and Wapping often against the wishes of the membership. Often the reason given for withdrawing support was to not jeopardise the Labour gov\'s chances of remaining in power. See were that\'s landed working people / the TU etc.

[mark]

quite the opposite (i think...) The union needed to be more media friendly to garner support, no to help negotiations. If you have media support and support from the masses your position at the negotiating table is stronger.

Thatcher had the media on her side. If the masses were in greater support of the miners then her position would have been much less strong, and her attemps to blitzkreig all before her would have met much firmer resistance. Bernard Ingham did for her what campler did for blair.

I\'m in no way condoning her actions, but in retrospect (always easier anyway) think a less confrontational approach from the union would have been better

jeez I\'m starting to sound like a wishy washy liberal, time to break out my emergency PCP supply


Its nice to know that the wounds haven\'t fully heaaled and some of still feel and still hurt. Our time will come.

There WILL be a peoples revolution in this country in my lifetime, and I\'ll be the first to hide and tell other people what to ddo

[Ell]

Mark you\'re right

I\'m starting to sound like a wishy washy liberal

LOL
There WILL be a world revolution in our children\'s lifetime, but I fear it will be orchestrated by the Ruling Elite. It will be inevitable as all the signs suggest that the Global warming thing is pretty much out of control. Although Bush and other western leaders are still publicly sceptical (denying) it\'s veracity the CIA and one of the largest global insurance companies have both published projections which spell out some extremely serious dealings that we are going to have to face in the near future. Huge areas of low lying land disappearing, massive disruption to food production. People getting really ****ed off with things all over the place and basically a great big gang **** of a disaster. The vested interests are already planning how to best take advantage of this potential apocalypse without doing a meaningful thing to stop it happening.
Now that\'s just as a result of a change in the weather, hopefully we\'ll get wise enough to have things our own way and sack these Greedy Leeches b4 they start selling us dry land and Oxygen. (OxyGen, sounds like a company already doesn\'t it, it ****ing will be soon)

I\'ve just re-read me post and feel it\'s time I packed up my bags and joined The Michigan Militia, I fear Michigan has no coastline though (YET!)
[Edited on 6/3/2004 by Ell]

[Edited on 6/3/2004 by Ell]

[mark]

I\'ve just re-read me post and feel it\'s time I packed up my bags and joined The Michigan Militia, I fear Michigan has no coastline though (YET!)

now you know why I moved out to the hills, this part of weardale is the nearest this country has to kentucky backwoods - rumour has it deliverance was filmed on the wear at eastgate.

a 200 foot rise in sea level does have its advantages tho - london and manchester will both disappear for starters,

and I\'d not have so far to drive to go fishing

[TC]

Lol Mark,

\"a 200 foot rise in sea level does have its advantages tho - london and manchester will both disappear for starters\"

Would this mean that;
London would give us:-
Drowning Street
Chas & Dive

Manchester would give us:-
Coralnation Street
Man U would mean Manchester Underwater


Any more offers.........

Apologies for derailing the original topic, but I\'ve had too many John Smiths tonight....hic


[Edited on 7/3/2004 by TC]

[willywetegg]

LMAO Tony not bad for too many J Smiths mate.

[mark]

roy keane would probably be issued with a peaar gun and ferguson would defend it by saying he was just defending himself.

If they lost a game he would probably winge that it was the balls faault for being too floaty