Warning Cambois Pier!

[mark]

Actually, trespass is now a criminal offence and not a civil offence, has been for some time. It came in with the criminal justice act a few years back, the law that was largely created to stop people having parties/raves, persecute new age travellers and bust the hunt sabs.

The arrest powers for trespass were discretionary, but as of the the recent \'respect\' and amendments to the Regulatin of Investigatory Powers act, they\'re not any more, and do include the powers to confiscate any materials that are being used or may be used in a crime, so if If trespass is a crime, anything you are carrying constitutes materials used so can be taken - that includes fishing tackle, mobile phones, in fact anything you have on your person. Yet to see a case be tried on this basis, but I\'m sure it\'ll happen - re: the liverpool 2, if the new acts had been in force when they were lifted, betcha they wouldn\'t have seen there tackle again

[flathead]

Yeah agree with you TC been on the pier when its happened. I think the situation at shields pier may be more down to money the pig-headed jobs worths. i recall years ago the pier watchman coming along about 10pm in the summer saying if you wanna get off without climbing round im shutting now! however i suspect they now only man it 9 to 5 thats why he now shuts it around 4pm. Mark is spot on also with his legal comments \" all articles used in the commision of an offence may be subject to seizure \". Still dont know of anyone its happened to though!

[insanojackson2]

the first duty of the police is to preserve life, if the gates to piers and jettys etc are locked there is generally a reason for it. ie it is in a dangerous condition or the prevailing weather makes the place dangerous. if you persist in climbing these gates or barriers you then in turn may put the lives of others at risk, probably the police or coastguard when you come to grief. i can certainly remember fishing the back of the tanks at hendon and seeing morons lighting fires 20yds from huge tanks containing highly combustable chemicals, its no wonder we get kicked off places like that.
its only a few years back i can remember one or two lads getting swept off shields pier at least one died, the port of tyne are responsible for the pier i believe so its no wonder people get their names taken and get themselves escorted off the pier. i personally have never spoken to anyone who has been arrested or had their gear siezed this may be just the vicious rumour squad. but i stand to be corrected! if these people where arrested and by that i mean in the back of the police car taken to the police station interviewed etc i would be interested to know if any where prosecuted and if so what they where charged with!

Yes the police have duty to preserve life but do not have a power to arrest you for fishing where you shouldnt be. If you say \"i am staying go away and leave me alone\" they cannot use force to move you or it would be an assault.

They could only seize your gear if it was evidence of an offence, as no offence is being comitted they cant seize it.

Persuasion wuld have probably been used by the police, thats all
!!

[insanojackson2]

Actually, trespass is now a criminal offence and not a civil offence, has been for some time. It came in with the criminal justice act a few years back, the law that was largely created to stop people having parties/raves, persecute new age travellers and bust the hunt sabs.

The arrest powers for trespass were discretionary, but as of the the recent \'respect\' and amendments to the Regulatin of Investigatory Powers act, they\'re not any more, and do include the powers to confiscate any materials that are being used or may be used in a crime, so if If trespass is a crime, anything you are carrying constitutes materials used so can be taken - that includes fishing tackle, mobile phones, in fact anything you have on your person. Yet to see a case be tried on this basis, but I\'m sure it\'ll happen - re: the liverpool 2, if the new acts had been in force when they were lifted, betcha they wouldn\'t have seen there tackle again

You are wrong .the regulation of investagatory powers act (RIPA) has nothing at all to do with powers of arrest it is about surveillance of a covert and intrusive nature and the authorities required to do such things.

The offence of \"aggravated trespass\" does exist and is designed for raves,protests and specifically hunt saboteurs (before fox hunting was banned) I find it difficult to imagine the situation where it could be used to stop you fishing.

Now if protestors were stopping you from fishing that would be a situation where it would apply.

As a result of the serious organised crime act all offences are now arrestablle if certain conditions apply. But i reiterate you would not comitt an offence by fishing!

I used to fish on the cambois hot water pipe and have been asked to leave by police, would i have done this if i thought i could be arrested and worse still lose my job???

And as for arrest powers being discretionary, all constables have discretion and do not have to arrest anybody for any offence. offences can be dealt with in many ways besides arrest from a verbal warning to a summons etc.

I personally would not arrest somebody for fishing even if it was an offence and i dont know any of my colleagues who would!!!

Have better things to do to be honest

[Edited on 25/1/2006 by insanojackson2]

[codthumper]

thanks for that mate i,ve been asked to leave a few times while fishing hendon docks sea defences always left when asked ---but know of a couple of lads arrested when they refused--where they wrong to arrest these fellas

[insanojackson2]

thanks for that mate i,ve been asked to leave a few times while fishing hendon docks sea defences always left when asked ---but know of a couple of lads arrested when they refused--where they wrong to arrest these fellas

What were they arrested for?????

I used to work in sunderland and i have never heard of this. Only think i can think is that they kicked off and were arrested for a breach of the peace?

[codthumper]

that could be possible as i said we always left knowing we should,nt be there [it was,nt police who asked us to leave port security] but we,ve heard guys tell him to f/off so probably argued with police as well ----i know one lad [afreind of mine ]was on t/mouth one [about 10 yrs ago ]only person on theresea coming over--polce launch went out he refused to come off --so they went through the tunnel and made him come off ibeleave he was charged i,ll ask him next time i see him

[RGF]

I work at a oil terminal on South Tyneside and the jetty that the company has is regularly used to fish from.in turn the fence regularly gets broken/breached,some lads just climb around a pipe at the bottom of the wall,now that this jetty is disused the company has tried to give it back,well pay up the 30 year lease and hand the facility back to it\'s rightful owner\'s -but all to no avail,cos it all comes down to money/insurances through claim culture that we now all live in.It\'s cheaper if the company keeps the jetty incase there was an incident/accident,then the owner\'s would not be embroiled in compensation/legal wrangling etc..nobody wants the place apart from the angler\'s.

[codthumper]

i,m not not up on law --but there used to be signs on places that you were,nt supposed to be [enter at your own risk] does this not apply any more

[RGF]

not sure of that myself Codthumper was hoping to hear more from the board.

[willywetegg]

Thank\'s again insanojackson2 for a very informative post.

Do you have a name that you would like to be called as it would be so much easier mate lol. It doesn\'t have to be your real one.

The only problem that I and probably a few others have is. The Liverpool lads that were arrested for crimes that were far beyond what they were doing.

They were arrested in quite a high profile with anti terrorist charges held against them. Who is to say that this could not happen to me or even you when fishing these venues.

I am not advocating fishing these places as it is not allowed but would apreciate a bit more information on the subject.

Jim.

[willywetegg]

Also mean\'t to say that there are still far too many post\'s only consisting of hear say and no one has answered my previous post to tell us what was said and done to the three fishermen that were alledgedly arrested for fishing Cambois pier.

Again Keith not having a pop as you posted what you saw as a genuine piece of advice. I would have done the same mate. I know you and you would not post that off your own back if you did not believe it to be true.

Please help the forum out with this information.

Jim.

[flathead]

The only other option to consider would be that having committed the offence of trespass the police may use Sec 25 of The Police and Criminal Evidence Act (1) and (3)i what this basically states is that if the police believe you have committed a non-arrestable offence ie trespass and as at (1) they believe you have provided them with a false name or you have not provided an address suitable for service of a summons then they can arrest, only in order to establish your true identity. Part (3)i Again you have committed a non-arrestable offence but also they believe that your arrest is necessary in order to prevent you causing harm to yourself or others. Just another to throw into the pot! In these instances i would suggest seizure of any fear would be a temp measure to prevent loss or damage.

[insanojackson2]

The only other option to consider would be that having committed the offence of trespass the police may use Sec 25 of The Police and Criminal Evidence Act (1) and (3)i what this basically states is that if the police believe you have committed a non-arrestable offence ie trespass and as at (1) they believe you have provided them with a false name or you have not provided an address suitable for service of a summons then they can arrest, only in order to establish your true identity. Part (3)i Again you have committed a non-arrestable offence but also they believe that your arrest is necessary in order to prevent you causing harm to yourself or others. Just another to throw into the pot! In these instances i would suggest seizure of any fear would be a temp measure to prevent loss or damage.

Not an option Im afraid sec 25 of pace does not exist anymore. It was killed off on 1st jan when the serious organised crime and police act came into force. Anyway simple tresspass is not an offence the police would deal with.

I have done some digging today and there is a local bylaw that makes it an offence to trespass in sunderland docks! cannot find any for blyth though.

If somebody can confirm they were actually arrested, the circumstances, what the outcome was and if and why their tackle was seized i can tell you if it was right or wrong. Anything else would be pure speculation

[Edited on 26/1/2006 by insanojackson2]

[alan]

two points...................
I spoke to a crewman of BVLS who works for the same company as me,he witnessed what happened last Sunday \"I seen fishermen/fisherman being escorted off the pier by Northumbria Police officers and to the best of my knowledge there was no arrest made and probably only got a good talking to but maybe who ever left the message on the website knows a bit more than me but it certainly was\'nt discussed at there base/HQ\" he said he would ask over the weekend if there was any truth in what happened.
Another lad at work is a Magistrate and confirmed what others have said.
\"Trespass is not a criminal offence,however alot of cases that have came before him have resulted in defendants being charged with criminal damage as thats the only charge that will stick\"
He would\'nt comment on this incident and said he had no knowledge of any Angler being charge with Trespass/Criminal Damage related crimes but said every case is unique.