how stiff do rods really need to be ?

[Deans]

A good caster will cast a long way with any broomshank or floppy stick. Carbon or fibreglass! Same as anglers, a good angler will catch fish regardless. Modern rods do help but I do believe they are becoming too powerful for most. I like powerful rods because they get the job done but are nowhere near as nice to use as a sensitive softer rod. You can fish everywhere with a stiff rod but will struggle if your rods too soft. I've noticed a number of anglers are now using 7 oz leads to tow baits out, in the old days it was 5 oz. For scratching its going the continental route, long light rods and light end gear. Lovely to use and very effective but and a big but, they can't be used all of the time. Nowadays there is so much choice you can buy what suits you. Trouble is most buy what suits others ie is trendy or used to cast 300 yds. It doesn't matter if they can only lob 80yds with a huge grunt. Tackle is tackle at the end of the day, luckily good rods are now cheaper or more expensive if that's your thing.

yep. spot on.
couldnt agree more. softer rods enjoyable but not as efficient (for cod obviously)

have to admit am for the 7oz revolution, and hard century rods.

personally i think these get the job done better when fishing kelp.

and also belting into a head wind. ,



look at wessy, pye, hossack. century rock rod men proofs in the pudding bannana man. for cod anyways

1. - all depends what level you actually want to take fishing to

2. - all depends what level you want to take the casting to


if your one of them who runs on a drum end at low water ,,,, gets flooded off, catches a couple of five punders then legs it off again at low water- BUY A century SCAFFOLD POLE.

if ya scratching for whities in the river- ............................................ ha only jesting lads .

[harry barker]

Dont write off the old 484 for distance casting . A couple of years ago I took my old 484 down to an East Coast Casting Clubs event at Driffield just to see what i could do with it on the court . Id never cast it for over 30 years and it had lost an inch or so off the tip making it about 11ft 3 ins .
On the morning I managed around 230 yds with my zippy xtr and as the conditions deteriorated decided to have a play with the 484 , the result being 5 out of 5 casts over 205 yds with the best at 223 + and ive since had it over 230 mucking about at Kirkleathem on the Thursday night practice .
I know it opened mine a few others eyes regarding the tournament rods we all use .

Bob, all of the 484s/464s had a bit missing off the tip mate you could see this as the ring spaces at the tip end was out of kilter with the rest of the ring spacings..lol.
I had the 484 with the cork butt reel up and when I think about it the reel winch fitting to bottom of the butt was built for giants as the grips were way to far apart,never the less a very good built rod and a for-runner to the j curve rods of today with stiff-ish butt and powerful mid section then v flexible tip....hence bit missing off the tip. lol.
I think the blanks of these rods were conolon USA.
At the time ABU was market leaders in rods n reels.
But when Terry Carrol started his business of rod manufacture we moved into a different era because you had the perfect marriage of a top caster making and designing beach casting rods and its still going strong today and in my opinion the best you can get.
There is no rod manufacture that builds/designs rods and knows how to use them only Zziplex and this will live on.

[topbanana]

.

[topbanana]

yep. spot on.
couldnt agree more. softer rods enjoyable but not as efficient (for cod obviously)

have to admit am for the 7oz revolution, and hard century rods.

personally i think these get the job done better when fishing kelp.

and also belting into a head wind. ,



look at wessy, pye, hossack. century rock rod men proofs in the pudding bannana man. for cod anyways

1. - all depends what level you actually want to take fishing to

2. - all depends what level you want to take the casting to


if your one of them who runs on a drum end at low water ,,,, gets flooded off, catches a couple of five punders then legs it off again at low water- BUY A century SCAFFOLD POLE.

if ya scratching for whities in the river- ............................................ ha only jesting lads .

Andy crows words not mine mr potato head. So if you want to be cocky join the Whitby site and give him your pearls of wisdom since you apparently know everything.

[Deans]

theres simply more variety of rods these days.

think its a case that the stiffest of rods just have to be in the correct hands to get the best out of them thats all.

so no, i do not think rods are getting to stiff.
its what ive already quoted however in different word formation this time lol

happy days

[GerryBerry]

Bob, all of the 484s/464s had a bit missing off the tip mate you could see this as the ring spaces at the tip end was out of kilter with the rest of the ring spacings..lol.
I had the 484 with the cork butt reel up and when I think about it the reel winch fitting to bottom of the butt was built for giants as the grips were way to far apart,never the less a very good built rod and a for-runner to the j curve rods of today with stiff-ish butt and powerful mid section then v flexible tip....hence bit missing off the tip. lol.
I think the blanks of these rods were conolon USA.
At the time ABU was market leaders in rods n reels.
But when Terry Carrol started his business of rod manufacture we moved into a different era because you had the perfect marriage of a top caster making and designing beach casting rods and its still going strong today and in my opinion the best you can get.
There is no rod manufacture that builds/designs rods and knows how to use them only Zziplex and this will live on.

What about Julian Shambrook's Anyfish Anywhere rod's Harry, designed by a England triple gold medal winner, and he certainly knows how to use them.

[harry barker]

What about Julian Shambrook's Anyfish Anywhere rod's Harry, designed by a England triple gold medal winner, and he certainly knows how to use them.

And made in China I believe and not made by the above gentleman.

No doubt good rods as well but tell me a company that the man makes and designs the rods due to his experience of using them.

[Rocker]

A rod only needs to be stiff enough to suit the conditions and venue.
I've owned a few rods but use four, all have their uses.
I've got an sv bullet, which I use on the really rough stuff like the green wall,
A century tts, which is a great mixed ground beach rod.
An Excalibur tt, great for cliffs or lumping 7oz into a gale.
I pair this up with an old Mk 1 Apollo when beach fishing in winter when I want to use 2 rods.
So to conclude, I think you need at least three or four rods depending on the marks you fish.
Not all modern rods are stiff though, I had a zziplex HST that was like a stick of licorice

[InCodweTrust]

Just seen this while mooching about on the web. Its an interesting debate and it'll be interesting to here what people have to say.

' Lets take a look and see if rods have changed for the good for fishing. Lets go back to the 70's wasnt many ultra stiff rods back then! Unless you took the scarborough rod and reel route. Lets look through to modern day, in the 70's the multiplyer age began i remember rods such as milbro, hardy, edgar sealy & so on, now these rods were floppy things but did they catch fish! Of course they did, Rock ,Sand, Pier, the lot. Did they cast a bait along way? Yes coupled with a mitchel 600, or a intrepid sea streak or even a early 7000 with level wind, Not quite to todays standards but double that of the old scarborough gear, so we move on then came the real changes abu 484, Conoflex, plus others, these rods could cast even further still very soft by todays standards, but did they catch more fish open to debate. Only when the real class anglers took this method onboard then things started to change! Eric Thompson "still one of the best there has been." Jeff Cook, Mick Hillaby & Joe Bamfield Just to name a few these boys could pull cod through kelp with ther soft rods! Over the next few years things moved along slowly in rod desighn but at this time a man came along that was to change all angling around scarborough and surrounding areas, a man who would use this new tackle to its limits "remembering that we are still on relativly soft rods" This man took rock angling to a level not even matched today using 7000's, 484's, Conoflex's He outcasted and outfished anyone who crossed his path, That man being Steve I'nson.but Lets get back to the rods the next real move forward was Semi-Carbon again conoflex these rods were the benchmark for everything to come, these agian were still very soft by todays standards, but did they catch less fish? No, more! And probably bigger ones too.The casting era had begun. The next major change in my mind was zziplex, still very soft actions but the part where people seem to forget is they were very powerfull capable of casting long distances with big baits and also pulling fish through heavy kelp! Zziplex moved slowly forward making quality fishing and casting rods "only fueling steve's quest even further" The other manufacturers also brought ther own models out and were very succesful with models like Conoflex's , Flicktip, & Diawa's WKT and so on, Give and take a few years. At this point i think rods became a selling tool not a fishing tool, some manifacturers decided they would even start making rods that didnt bend and just snapped "Scorpian sport for example" Shame really becuase the rods they were making before were exellent! Then came to my way of thinking some of the best fishing and casting rods ever made watching some of our local big casters use rods from this era in my opinion casting some of ther longest lines take CPS "as big a caster as there is" always thought his best was a S.V bullet "mint fishing rod". Then take ramrod watched him many times pendulum his 12 foot soft tipped terminator and land his lead in Norway! (again a excellent fishing rod) Mart Wilding another massive caster with rods from this era. Then came the stiff era, and the question i leave you with is "Have we lost the plot?" How stiff do rods need to be to catch fish on rough ground or do they need more viagra in with the carbon? please give me your opinions as i am interested to know where we are going from here and in my opinion a lot of our best catches and best fish were taken on softer rods

I used to fish around Scarborough a lot around the early 70's, and used to see all the lads swinging the scarborough gear out. With regards the Scarborough reels, and the rods used for them. They tended to be quite short, and very stiff. There was a reason for this they were used for roving angling, fish a rock hole for an hour and if you didn't have a fish move on to the next. They used to come into there own at low water. More than a few lads used to do this by push bike on the Marine Drive marks. Some with the rods slung bow style over there backs, or tied to the cross bar, some I would say were under 10' long. Thing is they didn't need to cast far for this, and needed a really strong rod to get any fish out of the snags, and kelp. The strong stiff rod wasn't for the casting, I could get very reasonable distances, not the same as a multi. before you start, with a 9" oil bath, paired with a 12' foot purpose built Martin james Yarmouth, which was a through action rod with serious power in the middle section. Very effective on the drive, apart from the big gap you had to create in the pedestrians to cast over the shoulder, on a sunday

[john/r]

just a thought many tend to believe you need a stiff rod to bully fish out off kelp heavy ground lifting fish up piers etc etc.

not everybody lives next to the sea hence they aint sure if sea is rough etc etc ,prob is up here we have a variety of marks and sea conditions determine were you fish thus determing what rod to use.

these days it is not wise to leave rods in the car easly stolen so i think most would take one rod down.obviously i stiff rod can use anywere wereas a soft rod has it limitations.

realy i think it comes down to what do you call a stff rod and do you realy think you need a stiff rod for heavy ground .

[topbanana]

My opinion is once a rod is locked up its locked up, no matter how powerful they are. Again my opinion is that rods are heading more towards tournament casting as opposed to fishing rods.

[fish fingers]

top post topbana got some good replies back and plenty of views

[john/r]

My opinion is once a rod is locked up its locked up, no matter how powerful they are. Again my opinion is that rods are heading more towards tournament casting as opposed to fishing rods.

i have heard it said and read it that some say that casting is fastly becoming a different hobby/sport to fishing.

again i think this comes down to ones own thoughts,casting imo can learn you a lot about rods and smooth casting.

if you learn to cast it is up to ones self how often and to a point were to use it as well as rod choices .

personaly myself i believe is very important part of fishing still and well worth learning imho.

[topbanana]

i have heard it said and read it that some say that casting is fastly becoming a different hobby/sport to fishing.

again i think this comes down to ones own thoughts,casting imo can learn you a lot about rods and smooth casting.

if you learn to cast it is up to ones self how often and to a point were to use it as well as rod choices .

personaly myself i believe is very important part of fishing still and well worth learning imho.

Without doubt but I can't help think that in quite a few case's people buy rods that they can't use but do so because the rods in question do it on the fields with people that can use them. If I were to wear usans bolts running shoes there is no doubt in my mind that I could not run as fast as him so why is that people think that owning the rods tournament casters use make them top casters and anglers. Back on topic, me personally, I don't think you need rods with as much power as they have now. Where does it stop ? For me these rods take away the enjoyment of fishing. As the post states, people done just as well with softer rods back in the day as they do with the ego boosting barge poles of the casting field.

[john/r]

Without doubt but I can't help think that in quite a few case's people buy rods that they can't use but do so because the rods in question do it on the fields with people that can use them. If I were to wear usans bolts running shoes there is no doubt in my mind that I could not run as fast as him so why is that people think that owning the rods tournament casters use make them top casters and anglers. Back on topic, me personally, I don't think you need rods with as much power as they have now. Where does it stop ? For me these rods take away the enjoyment of fishing. As the post states, people done just as well with softer rods back in the day as they do with the ego boosting barge poles of the casting field.

you may have a point m8 time will tell.