HFW Channel 4 Fishfight

[Charlton]

well i think we should all get behind Hugh, but also or commercial fishermen, they should all say bollocks to the CFS and land what they catch, but as many said on the programme and i know has been said elsewhere restrict themselves to time at sea. If they didn't they would land that much fish the price would drop and wouldn't be worth landing anyway.

[Charlton]

If anyone wants to tell me that I've got it all totally wrong; I'm willing to listen to a better solution; because by throwing back all these dead fish, all we are doing is increasing the seagull stocks!!![/QUOTE]

sorry Chris you have got it spot on, talked with someone in what was then MAFF with someone at their HQ in London about the same thing, a total tonnage, they thought it was a good idea, even did an article or two about the quota system many moons ago in the Sunday Sun. But it is the European Beaurocrats who have the last say, lets tell them all to go and get discarded.

[danny boy]

i have worked on trawlers but a long time ago,this programme was spot on.
the amount of fish thats goes back dead is unbelievable.

[Hadji Kareem]

I’ve just watched Hugh’s programme on fish discards. “Fish Disgrace” should be the words. How can throwing tonnes of fish overboard be allowed because some pen pushing politician in Europe says it has to be thrown over because of quotas. Cut the days fishermen can go out but allow them to land the whole catch. Let’s be sensible about it for once. Go HUGH, you’ve got my vote.

[loopy]

Fish quiz

For those of you who did not see it last night do the Richard Benyon Quiz and see how you get on. Days at sea, not quota is the answer.

Quiz: do you know your sea fish? | Life and style | guardian.co.uk

[Lowrider]

I watched the prog and the only thing that appeared not to have been considered was the processing of the catch.
I agree the system at the moment is mad but why could the fish be stored/sorted in a manner that may give them a better chance of going back alive.
It appeared that the whole system was geared to the ease of the sorters and not the welfare of the fish. After all if they can catch and keep the king crabs etc by the ton why cannot it be done on a smaller scale with holding tanks and the fish scooped out and quickly sorted. Then the types and size that cannot be used go back.
Ok there will be costs etc in all this but that can be sorted in some way if the EU still want this system to go on, the science says it must still for fish stocks to recover, then there will have to be method of aiding the fisherman.
But in all this lets not forget that it was the over fishing without care by commercial fisherman that got the seas in this state,i would suggest that they have an agenda and we must balance all sides in this.
NOT just the commercial/money aspect of fishing.
Conservation must also be considered in this debate for a sloution

[Lowrider]

Can the mods merge the two threads on this topic,it is daft having the same debate twice on the same page

[Red5]

I don't know if this is the right place to post this so if any admins or mods want to move it I'm fine with that; I just want to put my two-penn'orth in on the fish stocks debate/problem.

We have bureaucrats in highly paid positions sitting in offices without a clue what they are doing trying to save our fish stocks by implementing stupid new rules like increasing minimum size limits for fish species; we all know that only results in more and bigger fish being thrown back into the sea dead and unused. Increasing mesh sizes on nets has little or no effect because once the net is choked with fish it doesn't matter what size the mesh is, everything gets stuck in there.
Now; I don't know exactly how the quotas work or what the quotas are, but I'll make up some numbers just to make my point and it is a VALID point.

Let's say that fisherman Smith has an annual quota of 1000 tons of saleable fish; and his boat can carry 10 tons at a time. He goes to sea and throws his nets; hauls them back several times until his 10 ton hold is full. He heads home, on the way sorting through the fish and throwing overboard anything undersized, out of season, or anything he's not licensed for. By the time he's weighed in his catch he only has 5 tons of saleable fish. He needs to do this 200 times to get his annual quota of 1000 tons; BUT he has also thrown back into the sea another 1000 tons of dead fish.

Would it not be better to tell fisherman Smith that whatever comes up in his nets; whatever the size, whatever the species or whatever the season, he has to keep it all towards his quota; throwing nothing back. Now the 10 tons in his hold all counts, and he only has to make 100 trips to sea. There are no dead fish being thrown back into the sea; wasted. Less disturbance to the sea bed, less fuel being used.
Penalties would have to be introduced for any skipper caught throwing anything back.
I know that small fish aren't always what they want for human consumption, but the smaller stuff could be used in animal feed.

This surely is the only real solution to improving fish stocks.

If anyone wants to tell me that I've got it all totally wrong; I'm willing to listen to a better solution; because by throwing back all these dead fish, all we are doing is increasing the seagull stocks!!!

You could also argue that discards benefit the commercial sector!

Look at it this way, fish prices fluctuate due to supply and demand....i.e, the less fish that are landed, the more indemand they are therefore securing a better price for the fisherman and the boat owners.
What would happen if all of a sudden, all the cod that were caught were landed rather than being chucked over the side?....The market would be flooded with fish and the price of cod would tumble therefore meaning the fisherman doesn't make as much money.....How does he then make more money to cover the cost of his trip? Does he continue to discard, artificially lowering the number of fish caught so he continues to make enough money, or does he retain more fish, selling some through official channels with a better price and other fish enter the market through other means, so skewing the number of fish officially recorded and we end up with no real difference to conservation?

I think Hugh did an alright job, but he skirted a the main issue, which is technological creep and destructive fishing practices.
If only he had emphasised more on the under 10m boats in Hastings at the end as a method of best practice rather not condeming trawling and its indescriminate method of catching fish and destroying the sea floor. The fish monger also hit the nail on the head in terms of carbon miles and how he had to now source his cod from Scotland instead of on his doorstep caught in nets with larger mesh size, rather than trawled form the sea bed

Considering the majority of the fish consumed in the UK is White fish, why can't they be targetted by long line like the old days, therefore negating the need to drag nets and tonnes of metal along the sea bed.
Maybe Loopy can clear this up for me, are there alternative methods of catching nephrops such as huge creels akin to what they use on the deadliest catch (albeit with smaller mesh), rather than creating vast swaithes of muddy desert along the sea bed, that only nephrops can now inhabit?

The solution is a return to smaller boats, fish caught in by non-destructive practices so negating the need for discards and the fishermen getting a better price for their fish through a market not flooded with mass caught produce!

[mark]

You could also argue that discards benefit the commercial sector!

Look at it this way, fish prices fluctuate due to supply and demand....i.e, the less fish that are landed, the more indemand they are therefore securing a better price for the fisherman and the boat owners.

like everything else its not that simple, like the fishermen, the buyers are all licenced, you can't just sell to anyone. and the buyers have effectively established a cartel. Prices are woeful compared to what you'll see tesco's charging

Cod at Peterhead this morning was as low as £2.00 a kilo, whole whiting £1.20, haddocks £1.40

thats per kilo, now have a look what mister tesco is marking it up to - cod loin is today £14.67 per kilo in tesco

most of what is sold at auction is a bit of a sham. the big buyers effectively decide between themselves what the prices will be before the auction starts

so the fishermen get screwed again.

I tried to set up a co-operative website for a bunch of skippers last year. Selling direct, boxes of fish, direct from the boat, mail order. Had all the shipping organised, packeted dry ice lining a polystyrene box, overnight delivery etc, £25 would buy a 5kilo box of fresh fish, delivered to your door. all costs covered and the skippers would be getting double what the buyers give them, consumers paying half what the supermarkets charge and getting a much much fresher product

skippers would need only half the effort to get the same revenues. We got jumped on from a great height by DEFRA for acting as an unlicenced fish buyer before it even got off the ground, I was told that a certain company that buys big at peterhead and scrabster had merely made a phone call and that was that

Can we form a licenced fish buying company then - NO, was the answer

too many big businesses using quotas as a commodity to make money, many of the biggest buyers are also quota owners - yet don't own a single boat. go figure

[The Great Wallsendo]

without a doubt there is an agenda somewhere but for a TV friendly open it up to the nation first program it's a great start to the debate surely.

Fair play to the skipper of the trawler for allowing the cameras on board as straight away questions can be raised on what "wasn't said or done" just off what was shown on screen last night IE "why not employ less destructive methods??" - even my lass picked up on that one!!

[super-MAGuire]

"his head a heart are in the right place" hugh says about the fisheries minister who couldnt point at simple species!!!!

where is that place his wallet! or up some polititians arse.... born and breed as far from the sea as possible he admits. Stupid brown noser, claims the effort andc areas fished will be intune with conservation, no mentions of how it is possible!

[smokie]

Protest

Having watched the Huw Fearnley-Wittonstall programme last night on the fishing industry in the UK I have got to add my voice to the howl of protest I'm sure will rise from the revelations of the programme. That so much good food is wantonly destroyed is bad enough but to have it implied that it is part of a conservation effort beggars belief. It is as one contributing fisherman said on the programme a moral crime, yet not a 'criminal act under EU law.

I've sent a letter of Protest to our NE region MEP Miss Fiona Hall I think if we clog her in box with protests she should get the message .Her email is address is below


fiona@fionahallmep.co.uk

[Red5]

like everything else its not that simple, like the fishermen, the buyers are all licenced, you can't just sell to anyone. and the buyers have effectively established a cartel. Prices are woeful compared to what you'll see tesco's charging

Cod at Peterhead this morning was as low as £2.00 a kilo, whole whiting £1.20, haddocks £1.40

thats per kilo, now have a look what mister tesco is marking it up to - cod loin is today £14.67 per kilo in tesco

most of what is sold at auction is a bit of a sham. the big buyers effectively decide between themselves what the prices will be before the auction starts

so the fishermen get screwed again.

I tried to set up a co-operative website for a bunch of skippers last year. Selling direct, boxes of fish, direct from the boat, mail order. Had all the shipping organised, packeted dry ice lining a polystyrene box, overnight delivery etc, £25 would buy a 5kilo box of fresh fish, delivered to your door. all costs covered and the skippers would be getting double what the buyers give them, consumers paying half what the supermarkets charge and getting a much much fresher product

skippers would need only half the effort to get the same revenues. We got jumped on from a great height by DEFRA for acting as an unlicenced fish buyer before it even got off the ground, I was told that a certain company that buys big at peterhead and scrabster had merely made a phone call and that was that

Can we form a licenced fish buying company then - NO, was the answer

too many big businesses using quotas as a commodity to make money, many of the biggest buyers are also quota owners - yet don't own a single boat. go figure

You're right , it's not that simple, but the simple fact is, is that trawling for fish is the single most destructive thing happening to our planet today that is not discussed more openly. The destruction of the Rainforests we can see, under the sea we can't and the consumer is quite happy to bury their head and not look for alternatives!

You're right about the Supermarkets, they do exactly the same with farmers for their produce, with milk effectively sold at a loss by the farmer to the supermarket who then goes on to sell at a profit.
Probably since the advent of the Supermarket has mass produced goods, become the norm, small local shops priced out that would have sold more local produce, reducing carbon miles and having secured a good price for the local small scale fishermen.

The problem we have now is EU subsidies have allowed some fishermen to get bigger, better boats, with all the high tech gear to suck up every last fish in an area, this was partially explained by Professor Roberts last night, when he mentioned these boats seeing an increase in catches, because with all their hi- tech gear, they miss very little!

Look out for the Artisnal fishermen losing out to the big purse seine netters in their quest for tuna tonight!

[loopy]

Well done SMOKIE that is exactly the thing to do and I hope you all do the same. Just a few lines, perhaps asking what she is going to do about the problem highlighted by the fish fight campaign by HFW regarding discards.
fiona@fionahallmep.co.uk
On the Nephrops Rory you are right,there other fishing methods such as big pots most of the fishery in the NE is out beyond the 6 mile limit and is out of the new IFCA bye law area and it has been discussed at Net Gain The real answer is as always, with government, DEFRA and the newly formed MMO based in Newcastle will have to do what government dictate, the trick is to get public opinion on side (as per the Fishfight) and then let your personal opinion be known to your MP and MEP. We are supposed to live in a democracy but I do wonder sometimes when the European Union come up with policy that I have not had a chance to be consulted on. I guess the final solution is to go with a anti European political party.
Perhaps you could copy the MEP letter to your MP you can get the address from the link below.

TheyWorkForYou.com: Are your MPs and Peers working for you in the UK's Parliament? Hansard++

[The Great Wallsendo]

LOL tonights was about Tuna and couldn't help but laugh out loud at the last few minutes when they'd approached an alleged Tesco ship (one of the crew was even wearing a Tesco T Shirt!!)

*African accent* "Oh Yes we catch sharks, Turtle and often Tuna - these are our by-catch"

car crash TV if you're a Tesco shareholder