Marine Conservation Zones ins and outs

[Charlton]

I will have to read it a few times to take it all in Alan.Having too many "senior moments" these days !!!!!!

I have copied and pasted it to other forums though.

cheers mate

[loopy]

If you guys that attended the meeting at Newbiggin last year over the Marine Bill and the post on here about the Licence remember, I made a point at the meeting that the Marine Bill was about a lot more than the Licence and I talked about MCZ, that will include No Take Zones and much more and this is why it was so important to become a stakeholder and complete the consultation document that included questions on MCZ.(If you do don't DEFRA assume the answer to questionnaires, often in there favor) To my Knowledge there was only one Angling club in Northumberland to complete a consultation document and very few others from the North East. I attended a meeting in London with DEFRA and Natural England shortly after the Newbiggin meeting with Dave Morton about MCZ, RSA were well represented with SACN NFSA and others such as CEFAS that is when we were told unofficially about the Licence fee being dropped, this information was posted on here by Dave along with information about MCZ. In the meantime much more has happened with the common fisheries policy Article 47, The Northumberland Area of Outstanding Beauty along with European Marine site (Alnmouth to Scotland) seemed to have joined forces and will be having joint meetings soon and also wish to consult with RSA put all this together and add the last part of Marine Bill and that is Access, you can understand why the RSPB, National trust, Ramblers Association have jumped on board. The whole Idea of Angling Trust was to unite the voice of anglers and to be able to have the finance to lobby parliament and represent anglers on such matters. I have just joined AT as a personal member and believe that the more of us should do so, we then lobby our organization to represent us in the North East as they now have full time paid staff and a legal department they offer more than just insurance if you read the blub. Oh and I forgot to mention that the Northumberland Sea Fisheries Committee is also being consulted on, soon to be The Northumberland Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority, the guys that will police much of the Marine Bill. A lot to be taken in and to quote Leon Rosskilly if we are not sat at the table we will not have a say in the final outcome”. So it is our choice we have the Angling Trust Marine Group backed by the AT with one voice so I believe we should give them a try, pay the £20 quid and let them know about us in the North East.
London is losing The Marine Management Organization HQ and it is coming to, you wont believe it, Tyne side.

[davem2005]

London is losing The Marine Management Organization HQ and it is coming to, you wont believe it, Tyne side.

Quite a turn up for the books that one.

As I understand it the MMO is to take over the running of inshore fisheries from Defra and it that is the case it should make attending meetings far more affordable for us here in the NE.

With regard to anglers being represented by a particular body to have their say it is an area I am still very unsure about with regard to how this will work for the NE. There is no question that we have not had good representation at government level in the recent past and with the change from NFSA to Angling Trust it is still very unclear in mind what if anything will change.

The NE NFSA have not been very politically orientated in the past and I assume this organisation has become NE Angling Trust ( I may be totally wrong about that) There certainly seems to be a contradiction of opinions between the NE Angling Trust and Angling Trust marine policy if what I have read here is anything to go by.

Perhaps if fisheries management gets moved to Tyneside this will all change and many more local anglers will start to get involved.

Cheers
Dave

[g-force]

Here's a little something that might help us make up our minds-

SACN, BASS, NFSA, ANGLING TRUST - YOU KILLED SEA ANGLING - Fishing News

Gary

Oops - iust realized this was posted on the other thread already - sorry! Stiii worth a watch though

[loopy]

One of very many






YouTube - Adebayor Wants Henry's Wages! (Adolf Hitler Reaction)

Mike Ashley Sells Newcastle Funny YouTube*Video

YouTube - Hitler's BNP membership gets leaked

[Topfly]

I can understand why all the information on sea angling is required from the various areas around our national coastline, what i dont understand, is why these appointed bodies went the long way round to get it.

Firstly, they try scaring everyone with the introduction of a sea licence, then its no-take zones, bag limits,etc. Yes they got our attention, but only because of the internet, and the angling forums. It would have been a lot easier for every local authority to notify the electorate of the impending changes to their recreational persuit, as it would if they were to bulldose the six football pitches on the playing fields down the street.
Only our playing field has a bit of water on it. Now they want our input . I wonder if the inshore netters and potters will be forthcoming with the information required to collate an accurate account of their activities, considering they will come under the new Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities, and they will be managing the MCZs .
I personally am prepared to give them as much info as i can , like Red5 says it's on it's way. In the long term it is the best thing to happen to our coastline. if there is one thing that comes out of this i hope it is :accountability:

At least the genuine anglers will benefit from it , and all the anti social will not, because we will all be :accountable:.

Thanks Alan / Dave .

[Charlton]

I can understand why all the information on sea angling is required from the various areas around our national coastline, what i dont understand, is why these appointed bodies went the long way round to get it.

Firstly, they try scaring everyone with the introduction of a sea licence, then its no-take zones, bag limits,etc. Yes they got our attention, but only because of the internet, and the angling forums. It would have been a lot easier for every local authority to notify the electorate of the impending changes to their recreational persuit, as it would if they were to bulldose the six football pitches on the playing fields down the street.
Only our playing field has a bit of water on it. Now they want our input . I wonder if the inshore netters and potters will be forthcoming with the information required to collate an accurate account of their activities, considering they will come under the new Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities, and they will be managing the MCZs .
I personally am prepared to give them as much info as i can , like Red5 says it's on it's way. In the long term it is the best thing to happen to our coastline. if there is one thing that comes out of this i hope it is :accountability:

At least the genuine anglers will benefit from it , and all the anti social will not, because we will all be :accountable:.

Thanks Alan / Dave .

if you understand why they need this info can you answer me a simple question, which I waiting for the powers that be to answer. Why do they need information on bait digging and fishing outside the MCZ's it is only Natural England (English Nature) that wants it.WHY?

[mark]

if you understand why they need this info can you answer me a simple question, which I waiting for the powers that be to answer. Why do they need information on bait digging and fishing outside the MCZ's it is only Natural England (English Nature) that wants it.WHY?

my guess would be to be able to put down a claim that xx gazillion marine invertebrates are being extracted every year and that 26 less crested greater monkey birds are as a consequence getting a bit peckish more than usal there fore it should be banned everywhere, including in your garden

NEVER underestimate the power that English Nature and the RSPB have.

ask the crofters on the western isles... corncrake numbers drop a bit (only in scotland, there's millions of them elsewhere in the world)

crofters get told they cannot work there own land because it upsets the corncrakes

and they enforce it as well

[Topfly]

Like you have already said Alan, Anglers need bait to fish , it's quite simple, we can go to the supermarket and buy all the various baits that they sell....... they will catch fish lol, but the government can see another little earner,.... They need to know how many people are actually paying for bait, it's just another way of how bait collecting is carried out. All the bait diggers all over the country working . not paying tax..they are trying to assess the financial benefits at this end of rsa. only my view.
sorry if it's not very coherent

[Topfly]

I know Mark , They had their testicles removed during the clearances. This is now, it's not closing shipyards,coalmines steelworks, iv'e been there. this is something totally different. This is a depravation of a social activity, and they know this, that is why they are pussy footing on the whole issue .they are not competent in what they are doing.

[davem2005]

Alan,
They are not just collecting data from anglers, they are collecting it from anyone who uses the seas and foreshore. The Natural England questionairre is part of the finding sanctuary project which is being introduced throughout the uk later this year.

The pilot project in the SW has been running a while and a start has been made on the maps detailing activities in a particular area.

Take a look at Home » Finding Sanctuary for full details and Finding Sanctuary WebGIS for the type of information they are trying to collate.

Following some telephone conversations yesterday it would appear a second RSA questionairre is to come out shortly from Defra and I believe this has the backing of the Angling Trust.

I am not exactly sure when the north sea (area 4) project will start but I believe it will be in June this year.

Cheers
Dave

[Charlton]

Hi all
further to my recent questions, I sent a few more, they are below, below that is the answers I got, hope it is not just me or does she contradict herself, and my reply to her answers

Alan

Hi Audrey
can I just ask you a couple more Q's and make a point

1/ Why do you need to know about all the areas anglers use for bait digging as many of these may not be included in MCZs

2/ Why do you not wait until MCZs are designated and then get the information if anglers use that MCZ for anything.

all I would like to say is that you should scrap the survey and go about the whole business by getting anglers info when and where needed, there is no need for all the information you are asking for

Alan

Hi Alan

1. As I mentioned on the phone - the MCZs are unlikely to significantly effect bait digging as they are likely to be predominantly in subtidal areas. However some may be in intertidal. So if you wanted you could disclose the whereabouts of the bait digging beds only if it looked as if a MCZ was going to be designated in that area.

2. If we designated sites first and then asked people what they do there - it will be too late for them to influence the location of the site - so effectively if the MCZ is on a prime angling location and its designation results in restrictions on activities then anglers would have to effectively live with this. If they are involved at the beginning when the location and the size of the sites are being decided upon then they can influence where they are and make a case to potentially avoid a prime angling spot being designated - or conversely make a case for it to be included as a way to protect it from other activities.

Audrey

Hi Audrey
sorry Audrey but you seem to have contradicted youself with the answers, first you say

"So if you wanted you could disclose the whereabouts of the bait digging beds only if it looked as if a MCZ was going to be designated in that area"

then you say

we must get in from the start before sites desiganted before MCZs are designated

If we designated sites first and then asked people what they do there - it will be too late for them to influence the location of the site - so effectively if the MCZ is on a prime angling location and its designation results in restrictions on activities then anglers would have to effectively live with this. If they are involved at the beginning when the location and the size of the sites are being decided upon then they can influence where they are and make a case to potentially avoid a prime angling spot being designated - or conversely make a case for it to be included as a way to protect it from other activities.

you also say

"the MCZs are unlikely to significantly effect bait digging"

yet in your summary where you changed what you said on the phone, from the summary "their could be bans under certain circumstances" any ban would significantly effect bait digging as we have lost a lot up to now.


Q if anglers follow this, will this then mean you are scrapping the survey and then ask for the information required from anglers when the siting of an MCZ could be made
Alan

[northeast1]

If they put a ban fro Amble to the pool on all kinds of fishing most anglers wont need bait.

Keep up the work Alan we dont seem to have as many voices as we should have out there backing us up.

[Glenn Kilpatrick]

RSA were well represented with SACN NFSA

Now there is a paradox if ever I read one. Whilst your happy to let these people represent you your on a hiding to nothing. You need to get ready to fight for yourselves or else your battle is lost already.

A lot of you have missed the real concept of the video that has been posted. It portrays the outcome if you continue to let SACN, BASS and ANGLING TRUST represent you.

There are tough times ahead and tough decisions to be made but prepare to loose all you currently hold so dear if you dont sack the current bunch of angling MISS-representatives.

[Charlton]

Now there is a paradox if ever I read one. Whilst your happy to let these people represent you your on a hiding to nothing. You need to get ready to fight for yourselves or else your battle is lost already.

A lot of you have missed the real concept of the video that has been posted. It portrays the outcome if you continue to let SACN, BASS and ANGLING TRUST represent you.

There are tough times ahead and tough decisions to be made but prepare to loose all you currently hold so dear if you dont sack the current bunch of angling MISS-representatives.

No real need to sack them, when the powers that be say these bodies have made this agreement just turn round and say, they don,t represent me, I am not a member of their organisation.