a reply from defra regarding shore angling licence

[ryanlee]

Dear Bedlington Station Angling Club

Thank you for your e-mail concerning angling licensing and proposals on recreational sea angling (RSA).

Your response will be considered alongside other comments we receive on the consultation on a draft Recreational Sea Angling Strategy and next steps will be announced in due course. The closing date for the consultation is 31 March 2008, after which time and in line with Defra's policy of openness, copies of the responses received will be made publicly available through the Defra Information Resource Centre, Lower Ground Floor, Ergon House, 17 Smith Square, London SW1P 3JR. I acknowledge that you have not requested that your response is treated confidentially.

At present, there are two main projects that refer to a sea angling licence and other aspects of RSA. To clarify this and hopefully address your queries;

Firstly, there was a consultation on the Marine Bill White Paper last year. We are taking the opportunity to consider equipping fisheries administrators with powers that may be necessary for a more active approach to managing recreational fisheries. This includes proposals to introduce a recreational sea angling licence and the extension of controls to anglers and fishers from the shore, which may include the use of 'bag limits'.

I should clarify that the powers we are proposing in the Bill are enabling provisions only, to introduce a licence and possible bag limits at a later date. Although we expect that any licensing scheme might be broadly similar to that currently operated by the Environment Agency for freshwater angling, the details or possible costs for the scheme have not yet been proposed. If we proceed with measures, there would therefore be further consultation as we develop any scheme to charge sea anglers or to introduce bag limits for a specific species. Clubs and organisations like yourselves would have the opportunity to comment on detailed proposals as and when they emerge. Before any licensing scheme is introduced, we are clear that we need to demonstrate to sea anglers that it can provide real benefits to the sector. Detailed plans are set out in the White Paper, which can be found at Defra, UK - Error page

Secondly, there is currently a consultation on a draft Recreational Sea Angling (RSA) Strategy, and I have recorded your comments in relation to this consultation. This is separate to the Marine Bill, but the concept of licences and bag limits, as well as areas that may be protected for angling use only, are considered within this document, where they would form part of an overall package of measures for sea anglers. At this stage, we are consulting on this 'high level' Strategy, and the concepts outlined in there. Once the consultation has concluded, we will set out next steps on how any resulting measures might be taken forward, and what they would look like.

If you have any further comments on the draft RSA Strategy, we would be pleased to receive them. I will ensure that your club's details are added to our mailing lists, so that you receive news of any future consultations on matters of interest to sea anglers.

Kind regards

Nicola

>_______________________________________________ _
Documents available at Defra, UK - Consultations - Consultation on a Recreational Sea Angling Strategy for England

RSA Strategy Consultation
>Coastal Waters Policy
>Fishing Industry Management
>Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
>Area 2C, Nobel House
17 Smith Square
London
SW1P 3JR

>Tel: +44 (0)20 7238 4605
>Fax: +44 (0)20 7238 4699
>
rsa.strategy@defra.gsi.gov.uk

[loopy]

Ryanlee very similar reply to ours, The next trick is to compile our response.
I will send you a copy of the marine conservation response, makes interesting reading. Great to see us all starting to sing from the same song book in the north East, I have spoken to Dave Morton about the new date for the open meeting you propose, thats fine with him and myself, Dave will contact Nicola Clarke at DEFRA and see if they will be represented. I will contact the people who have PM me re the original meeting at Amble and give them the date and that we our pooling our response. Tight free lines.

[treeboa]

defra, nice name, not the same but defra were involved with the animal welfare bill or awb, this affected people keeping reptiles but however is more widespread than just reptiles, now they have it off the ground they are handing the running of it to the rspca, will defra once they have this bill sorted then hand it over to someone else for the running of - the e.a would in this have our interests in mind or so we would hope, however if say they handed over the running of it to say the fishing fleet management lads would our interests be high on the agenda, personally i dont see this licience as anything else but a tax, something else this govenment can leach from the people who voted it in, perhaps if this marine bill was brought in 25 years ago when it was really needed we would have by now seen a vast improvement in fish stocks by now, however while the sea is still raped by the e.u the situation is likely to become worse not better and we will be paying to watch the decline of it, if the money and revenue raised was used to police the seas better than they currently are then perhaps we may see less against the bill and the costs we as anglers will have to pay, however fishery protection vessels tied up for most of the year does not really consitute policing of the seas, far easier for some new jobs worth to go and issue on the spot fines to anglers having some quality fresh air and enjoyment that dont have a licience

[LeonRoskilly]

Licensing was included in some Parliamentary Questions asked yesterday.

see:

Questions in Parliament (Updated 16 Jan 08)

[mark]

the question:

Bill Wiggin (Leominster, Conservative) | Hansard source
To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
(1) whether he plans to introduce a recreational sea angling licence; what estimate he has made of the revenue that a recreational sea angling licence would raise; and if he will make a statement;
(2) pursuant to the Marine Bill White Paper and associated Regulatory Impact Assessment, what estimate he has made of the cost of administering and enforcing a recreational sea angling licence; and if he will make a statement;
(3) pursuant to the Marine Bill White Paper and associated Regulatory Impact Assessment, to what use the revenue raised from a recreational sea angling licence would be put; and if he will make a statement.

the response:
Jonathan R Shaw (Parliamentary Under-Secretary (Marine, Landscape and Rural Affairs) and Minister for the South East), Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) | Hansard source
The Marine Bill White Paper published in March 2007 includes proposals to introduce a chargeable licensing scheme for recreational sea angling. The regulatory impact assessment (RIA) accompanying the White Paper estimated that the revenue from such a scheme could generate £9 million to £12 million per annum in licence fees, depending on uptake and the rate of the charge. The RIA also estimated the one-off set-up cost to the Government could be between £0.1 million to £1.5 million, with annual running costs including enforcement between £1.2 million and £2.8 million, depending on how the scheme is implemented and the level of compliance.
The White Paper explained that the revenue raised from a recreational sea angling licence would be used to help support measures such as:
(i) improved scientific data to inform the development of management measures for stocks of specific interest to anglers;
(ii) protection and improvement of shore access and parking;
(iii) provision of more small boat launching facilities;
(iv) access to existing and new shore structures;
(v) creation of artificial inshore and offshore reefs; and
(vi) clear displays of relevant rules, codes of conduct and other useful data on the shore, at boat launch sites and aboard charter boats
The revenue would also cover the costs of administration, monitoring and inspection and evaluation of any measures introduced for the benefit of anglers.



IMHO you'll see the money raised applied to point vi, a government run quango will swallow loads of cash for point i

point ii will probably be parking meters

the rest will probably happen in Margate if theirs any money left

point i will reach the conclusion after 18 months that they need more money, so a 'balance will be acheived' by cutting back spending on iii, iv and v and putting the licence fee up

[occasionalkevin]

Remeber the smoking ban? Started in Ireland.
Saw an article somewhere that Dun Laoghaire council is considering banning shore fishing as it "constiutes a nuisance to other beach users".

Thats the end of flattie fishing then

[davem2005]

The replies as to where the money will go are a total joke and haven't changed since the meeting back in November.

To respond to them as numbered.

(i) It will pay for improved scientific data.
The estimated revenue raised would be 9- 12 million. The enforcement costs 1.2 - 2.8 million. So lets say 8 million left to spend.
The government currently spend 38 million on surveys for the stocks that commercials are interested in...another 8 million is not going to make a lot of difference to that. It also raises the question ...who funds the 38 million? Do commercials pay it?

(ii) Protection and improvement of shore access and parking.
I wonder how many carparks they plan to build. My recent night trips out to sea have left me amazed at how many anglers are out on our shores and how widespread they are. I would have thought this would be a car thiefs idea of heaven and probably avoided like the plague by anglers leaving their cars for long periods.

(iii) Provision of Small boat lanching facilities.
Yep...that will really make the shore anglers happy. They seem to have forgotten that only a small minority of anglers own boats.
Those slipways that exist in our region are sited sensibly where there is a traditionally safe launch...how many more do we need?

(iv) Access to Existing and new shore structures.
An interesting one. Building shore structures is mighty expensive these days, the existing ones closed to us are for the large part either in private hands or unsafe structures. Cant see much changing with this promise.

(v) Creation of inshore and offshore reefs.

...that you wont be able to fish for pots and divers. They recently sank a ship somewhere down south for divers . Not exactly sure where it was. I wonder what that cost?

If you consider that the money raised by the licenses ( 8 Mil ) will probably be split 12 ways through the sea fisheries committee's districts leaving .75 million per district...it isn't go to pay for many reefs.

(vi) Displaying signs and posters.

I fail to see how this is going to benefit angling directly and see it more as a means of enforcing the license...they cant do you for a parking offence if there are no yellow lines down. There is a desperate need for signs now informing anglers of size limits etc and it should not be anglers paying for them.

Cheers
Dave

[loopy]

Looks like Mr Shaw has set the tone for the Marine Bill as far as RSA paying a licence and it will come as no surprise to any of us when it is introduced.

Dave Morton is one, who is our second RSA Representatives (Northumberland) appointed by the secretary of state and what is he doing?

Northumberland 2 until 2009
North Eastern 4 until 2009

Bill Wiggins 2nd three part question to Mr Shaw.

1&2.
They have done the maths, to quote, "depending on how the scheme is is implemented and the level of compliance" This gives us our first potential form of protest, non compliance?
3.
sec(i) To Quote "specific interest of anglers" they have left the word recreational out. No mention of more and bigger fish for RSA perhaps it will benefit the commercials as well.

I can just see the reserved parking place on the Busy seaside prom town anywhere in the country ,RSA licence holders only.
Will the Alnmouth bursar's let us in for free in the summer?
The notices will cost a fortune as the government will want put them in all known languages used in the UK,they alone could do the budget.
Oh I forgot they could build more offshore wind farms and state they a inshore reefs.

Please write to your MP
Please watch this thread as I hope Ryanlee may have a date for a meeting.
The countryside alliance had a day out in London over hunting with dogs
why not the RSA, it's a day out

[gazzawill]

quoted by davem 2005
(iii) Provision of Small boat lanching facilities.
Yep...that will really make the shore anglers happy. They seem to have forgotten that only a small minority of anglers own boats.
Those slipways that exist in our region are sited sensibly where there is a traditionally safe launch...how many more do we need?

exactley dave why should shore anglers pay for slipways for small boats
is this goverment fooked up and thick or what
what benifit to a shore angler paying the liecence fee going to get from a slip way to launch small boats ?????
fair enough if you have a boat but thats boat fishing to me not shore fishing
i rest my case

[davem2005]

Gazzawill
Exactly the point made by people at the meeting in with defra and needing backing up by anglers. Although dont forget that small boat owners will also be paying license fees, but personally I have never heard anyone complain of a lack of launch facilities here in the NE.

There may well be areas of the country where there is a need for additional launch facilities but this demand should be catered for by the councils and funded by increased tourist revenue.

In looking into artificial reefs I came across this

S.E.A. consultants - ReefNorthEast

Never heard anything about it before...

Seems plans are afoot here in the NE. Wonder where that is going to be?

Also a costing to provide one reef ( for diving ) down south

The cost of the initial study was around £250,000, including a feasibility study and the purchase of the HMS Scylla (costing £200,000). The total cost of the project was approximately £1.4million.
Source the Reef NE Website S.E.A. consultants - ReefNorthEast

Shore anglers dont need reefs, slipways and carparks so the proposed benefits dont exactly add up to money well spent.

Defra are looking for other suggestions as to what they could offer...answers on an email to Defra by the 31st march

Cheers
Dave

[mark]

A token Gesture

a token gesture, maybe a start at least

BBC NEWS | Scotland | North East/N Isles | Cod spawn ground closure revealed

[LeonRoskilly]

Some more Questions on Licensing answered yesterday:

Questions in Parliament (Updated 17 Jan 08)

(Keep writing to your MPs and get them asking the questions important to you, where it matters - the more they are questioned, the harder it is to be swept under the carpet)

Find Your MP at TheyWorkForYou.com: Are your MPs and Peers working for you in the UK's Parliament?

[Red5]

You been talking to Bill Wiggin Dave?


Fisheries: Enforcement: 16 Jan 2008: Written answers (TheyWorkForYou.com)


I vowed a long time ago, never to vote conservative.....but this man seems to ask a lot of good questions!

[ScottyJim]

It's good to see that some MP's seem to be taking an interest. It would do no harm "to encourage" such diligence. If everyone would send, to Roger Gale or Bill Wiggin, an e-mail thanking them for their efforts taken on behalf of the million plus anglers, then they might pusue the matter with even greater vigour. It only takes a minute.

UK Parliament - Contacting your MP

It's up to us to push at every opportunity to support those that are supporting us.

[ScottyJim]

I also notice a lot of references in the links throughout this thread to artificial reefs, launch facilities, etc, which would also be of major interest to the sport divers. Perhaps they should be getting nervous about a license being imposed for diving in UK waters. Fishing today, diving tomorrow? Then there are the jet skiers, the yachts brigade, ...... . My isn't taxation a wonderful subject.