bad news

[Red5]

Surely representation is what the Sea fisheries committees are about as most of the members have a vested interest in the commercial sector! If they represent the commercial sector and these guys are out working all hours then the SFC's should start to come out and explain their perspective and their ideas for conservation.

Maybe that's why the trawlermen series was aired to give an insight into the industry, but really ended up shooting themselves in the foot when people saw what was trawled up and it's value on the market. This image is what gets anglers backs up .

They are'nt going to get the same sort of respect as the crew of the 'Cornelia Marie' in the Bering sea, their fisheries, having a whole different ethos with strict qoutas, closed seasons etc.

Looking at the Marine bill. and the replies ..The loudest voices I seem to hear are the true environmentallists, with many groups coming together with one voice to petition the government for a bill which best represents their view!

[The Great Wallsendo]

Looking at the Environment Agencys agenda for the next 3 years it would look like illegal fishing is not high on the priority list...(if indeed it ever was)

http://publications.environment-agency.gov.uk/pdf/GENE0406BKMI-e-e.pdf

[davem2005]

With regard to image its intresting to note that an organisation called "Seafish" who are set up to market commercials and their catch made a presentation at the last meeting. This actually took twice as long as the meeting. I guess you could call an organisation looking after their image.

The purpose of the presentation.

" How to Improve the image of commercial fishermen"

Seems they realise all is not well and are looking at ways of changing the publics perception. The result of the presentation...the committee set up a sub committee to look at ways of changing the image.

To be honest I am not actually sure if thats the image of the committee or the image of the commercials and I certainly did not put my hand up to sit on that sub committee.

The other group representing commercials at government level is the NFFO (National federation Of Fishermens Organisation). They mainly represent large pelagic boats.

Its intresting to note that the president of the nffo has a case for illegal fishing currently pending and an ex chairman (now on the finance committee)has also been prosecuted in the past...now what were we saying about bad image?

Cheers
dave

[Lowrider]

On the human side of things I would agree with you - why should they bother justifying what they do? The problem is that the Industry (of which each individual boat is part of) has this collective bad reputation (warranted or not)

No ordinary business would stand for that and would go all out with PR to try and remedy any bad publicity.

It seems to me there is an element of head in sand with this issue from both the Governing Bodies and also the boats themselves - in the hope the matter will "sort itself out"

That was what is was going to say,i know what working long hours is like,i used to do 12 hours a day 7 days a week,while the work is there you take it.
But they don't have to do much,meet once a month,have a debate,write a few letters,sorry but there are people a plenty out there who do that and hell of a lot more for something they simply believe in ,let alone something that is there source of income.
I know i was one of them for M.A.G,Motorcycle Action Group.
They can choose to something or not,but it strikes me they have the "farmer" attitude,everyone mind your own business about MY business but then they expect someone else to do something to keep them earning a living.
I am simply suggesting they could be proactive and protect something that they claim they love to do.
Nothing more.

[TIM]

I earn my living from the sea in a round about way, as I work in a tackle shop.
But find it hard to understand the thinking of some on this forum!
If you buy fish and chips it is You and not the fisherman that is to blame! Stop the demand and you stop the fishing, this ant going to happen.
I think Anglers have to stop and look at themselves before they point the finger at commercial fisherman. Every day I speak to anglers that are taking the small ones home for next doors cat!!!, or the match anglers that dump 30lb of whiting in the bin after every club match!!
I was on Whitley beach on Saturday night and a load of fish was caught, some reported some not, could the commercial fisherman say we took all his fish? Of course not , so why do we expect them to see our point of view when we act as saviours of the sea!!

[Falcone]

Thankyou Tim, ,my sentiments exactly, Especially the point regarding the dumping of fish after competitions. Its funny how some are keen to emphasize the dumping of fish from commercials, but not the shore. the amount of fish caught in competitions just to weigh in for a prize then dumped in the bin when they get home.....Surely if preservation of fish is that important why havent the clubs setup some sort of catch >>> weigh >>> release system.
Someone put up a post earlier stating that there are more people working in the lawnmower business than in commercial fishing, and that shore/angling boat fishermen are abundant
well if thats the case, i would like to know what sort of volumes are caught each year by the common shore angler throughout the uk, and the boat anglers, i bet it would shock quite a few people when its all added up.

[Lowrider]

Its funny how some are keen to emphasize the dumping of fish from commercials, but not the shore. the amount of fish caught in competitions just to weigh in for a prize then dumped in the bin when they get home.....Surely if preservation of fish is that important why havent the clubs setup some sort of catch >>> weigh >>> release system.

I agree and a point i have asked before on forums.
Catch and release is the way to go but it seems that many anglers feel it won't work.
I feel we must make it work.

[ryanlee]

its clear its greed and nothing else cant people see and at least acknowledge the fact.
i agree that not all commercial fishermen should be tarred with the same brush but if they dont do anything then its to be expected.this post was made to highlight the fackt that as soon as the bann was lifted then someone from the commercial side would take the p@@s.and they did.so far infact he is actually part time and does not rely on a good living from the sea,but works away in another job and classes this as a blody hobby.as for you tim when was the last time you actually saw 30lb of whiting weighed inn at an open???.you youself work for a tackle dealer serving the common angler and sell bait and tackle and must admit if the sea angling from the shore gets any worse you youself will be looking for another job.you never no on a nettter owt of the area.and all because the government see fit to expect us shore angler to pay for the fishing that has gone so very very wrong.what is nice to see is that every one has commented on the thread both shore and the commercial without any real annamosity.shame about the tackle dealers assistant thought he would be one of the ones fully backing the shore angler as its there money that pays his wage.my apology if it causes upset but i spend my money in tackle shops and expect a little support not posts against us.
like i said tim my apologys if this thread causes any upset to you.as none is intended.

[TIM]

I think you missed my point, when anglers catch and usually kill lots of fish the tackle trade makes more money. Are they also greedy!! I love fishing but seems to me if you had caught all the fish this commercial lad did you would be having Alan Charlton round your house for photos posting your big bag on here and loving the attention!
Is this about saving future fish stocks or is it about who catches them!!!

[ryanlee]

29 stone in one tide tim.not 29lb.
i myself have had some very good bags of fish in club and opens,but only when the fish are there.its not about what is left its about the meer fact that when the boat in question and maybe another actually set there nets its from one end of an area to another,i.e blyth-the tyne.you have to admit on that note the fish dont and us anglers stand a chance.
when the nets are there we dont catch fish,when there gone we at least have a chance.do you yourself think that this is right to set nets for that sort of distance and so close in???.
another example was on another site,couple of years back a chap who was local and still is had a boat,and watched the reports from the site and local papers,when the fishing was good he set the nets,some that close you couldnt even have a chuck as you would of lost your gear.now what would you call that.its nice to see a local tackle dealer showing support for the rod angler.cheers tim.

[Falcone]

Just to get one thing straight Ryan, It wasn'nt a ban so to speak. The 2007 quota for under 10M boats had been reached, so boats from the under 10M fleet were stuck in harbour unable to fish for cod. Once the new year dawned on us, Fishermen were allowed to begin fishing for cod as it would be 2008 Quota.
Now you think about this logically, i know you mention that guy from blyth was a hobby fishermen, but look at the other commercials as a whole, There is a set quota for under 10 M vessels, now when that quota is reached there is no fishing for cod, so cant you sort of understand why everyone wants a piece of the action.
I know if i was in the same position, i would want my share before the quota had been reached, afte all we all know the price on Cods head so it can make or break your year to get a few good hauls.
A new problem will arise soon enough, which i bet the shore angler will not of anticipated or even care one iota about because it wouldnt have a big impact on there hobby.
Once the quota has been reached more and more boats are moving into the shellfish sector, boats who would never of contemplated this before are being forced into potting to suppliment any losses incurred by the white fish quotas.
Over the next few years this is going to be a lot more widespread and you are going to see very large vessels from up and down our coast moving in on our hard ground marks shooting fleet upon fleet of pots, this as allready begun offshore with big blyth catamarans and over 20 M vessels fishing 3-4 miles off seaham/easington/horden as we speak with, Working with excess of 500 Pots per day.

So as the government fails to manage the whitefish sector correctly, its going to have a knock on effect into the shellfish industry and put that under some serious pressure.

[davem2005]

Tim,
I am suprised at your opinion considering that you rely wholly on the anglers for your living, as does your work mates, your boss and the people back in the factory who make the products you sell.

One of the key issues that everyone seems to miss is that any proposed changes are not aimed at reducing what we take from the sea but INCREASING it whilst still maintaining healthy stocks for all. Its estimated that the north sea could produce 8 times the fish it is doing at the moment without any decline in the stocks, but first measures must be put in place to get the stocks back to what they were and then keep them there once that is achieved.

This would be a winning situation for everyone.

I would agree that in the past match fishing practices have been very wasteful, but many organisers are increasingly using measure and release and points based systems. Many clubs have minimum size limits above that of the national minimum size and pleasure anglers are increasingly putting more back than they take home for the pot. These are all voluntary things put in place by anglers to help the recovery of our struggling stocks.

The commercials are more reluctant to make voluntary changes and this is why pressure needs to be put on governments to change the law so everyone gets to catch more and bigger fish.

The Icelanders did it in 1983 , unpopular with all at the time, but they are now benifitting from healthy fish stocks, commercials who have a profitable living, anglers are catching 100 lb + cod and there is a long term future for the industry. Lets hope that one day our waters will be in the same position and then 27 stone of cod taken of a popular angling beach by a commercial wont even be commented on, and you would have a secure job in a tackle shop full of customers who are regularly catching fish.

Cheers
Dave

[The Great Wallsendo]

I think what Tim is saying is that Anglers are not as "saintly" as some are trying to imply...it's all very well being Holier than Thou on this issue and castigating the Commercials out of hand; when Anglers themselves are not perfect conservationists...and will quite happily "bag up" when the situation arises. Like he also said - there was a bucket load of fish caught from Whitley Beach on saturday night and we all know that sometimes the fish aren't always kept for consumption but merely the trophy element...

Even if the commercials were allowed to continue their current tack, the tackle trade would still flourish as people would change their tactics to suit as Cod is not the ONLY fish in the sea

Same with the license issue, we need to get some order in our own house before casting stones

Now before I'm villified LOL...I agree with arguments on both sides; Commercials are not doing the oceans any favours - but Anglers with littering, wasting of fish etc are just as bad (although to a lesser degree obviously)

[Falcone]

That post is spot on Dave, everything we could and should hope for. Exactly what you said, the changes need to be made at the top. There will be some unhappy people, but you cant please all the people all the time, someone is going to suffer, but as my mother used to say to me after burning me finger on the cooker, It has to hurt to heal.

[Red5]

Won't name anyone, but I spoke to someone a while back who took a rather large bag when pleasure fishing and kept the lot. I said' did you not put any back' 'Bugger that for someone else to catch' he says.
It's like the fox in the chicken coop mentality for some pleasure anglers and I know of a few occasions of people who have caught fish in club matches and chucked them in the bin on the way home. 'Open Comps' I think have had a detrimental effect on the flatfish poplulations up our way, with 'some' people going out purely to catch as many flats as possible to bulk up their weight and then not keeping them in sufficient conditions for them to survive beyond being returned to where they were caught from and more often than not, not being returned at all. The lure of a microwave for the missus is too much for some.

It is an unwritten rule within our club that flats MUST be returned alive. I don't think we've had a single one weighed in our club this year?????


We can slate the commercials as much as we like...Often deservedly so, but there are many elements within our own sport that need to change to ensure a sustainable future for all.