UNDERSIZED FISH:RIGHTOR WRONG?

[mark]

now there\'s something I hadn\'t thought of. Bag limits., Quite a paradox when you think that If I pay to fish a wild scottish loch or river, I have a limit of fish I can take. Yet if I fish for free in the sea you can fill yer boots. You\'d think If you were paying for it you\'d be entitled to more.

I\'d wholeheartedly be in favour of strict bag limits... and would welcome enforcement. which is easy for me to see as it wouldn\'t be that often I\'d reach the bag limit anyway!

I\'ve always though shore competitions questionable with the unneccessary killing of fish for a weigh in. How many of the fish weighed in endd up on the table and how many just get dumped?? There aint much eating on a just \'in-size\' whiting/flounder


Would Keep nets work?? they work for coarse anglers. A length/measurement system wouldn\'t work unless you had virtually one judge per angler

[TC]

Chris,
You make some very good points and I understand what you say.

I think you may have opened up a whole new can of worms by suggesting the introduction of licences for pleasure sea angling. We had a BIG discussion about that very thing, a couple of years ago. We even had the Magna Carta quoted if I remember rightly. I agree with your suggestion on licences, but I think the very idea would be totally anathema to the wider sea angling community and impractical in operation.

I know what you have suggested are the “bare bones” on possible regulation of sea angling and that the “detail” isn’t important here, but I can’t help wonder just HOW the suggested bailiff system could work in practice.

Never having been coarse fishing, I don’t know but, I would assume that the locations where the bailiff system operates have set times for fishing as well as defined boundaries. I doubt if the entire coastline could be policed by bailiffs, 24 hours a day – no matter how many there were.

One of your points I agree wholeheartedly with is the introduction of MAXIMUM size limits. I’ve been told that the flavour of fish deteriorates when you get into the 15lb + area (talking cod, here), so why keep a cod of any greater size. If you’re not gonna eat it – release it ! One reason is, I suppose, if it was caught during a competition, there’s a chance of taking home a canny wad of cash – and that’s why I agree with your suggestion of outlawing competitions which rely on a final weigh-in.

[BILLYB]

I do not belive in a rod licence for see anglers it would just be a tax revenue for tony blair ir will make no differance to the stocks in the northsea or help in anyway,defra might get nice new offices and computers etc but the anglers will get nothing for there money.Men are already inplace to check charter boats etc but they think it is a waste of time to do it .I was on a boat at eyemouth when we were checked by a defra inspector he mesured a few fish was happy with what he saw and left.But inspectors in orther ports do not carry out there duties, It onlt takes mins to check out a boat when it lands you do not have to chase them all over the north sea.And if this happens skippers and anglers will soon get the message

[Chris_Hughes]

Tony,

The license and bailiff system, works for fresh and still waters and there are many more miles of river, canal and lake banks than miles of coast. Joining the forces of existing sea fisheries protection officers with existing E.A bailiffs and a newly formed \"sea bailiffs\" force would pool resources and knowledge. It would create jobs in the \"Sea Bailiff\" sector, I\'m sure there area few on here who would snap up a job which brings them into close contact with the marine environment and sea fishing, hey some of the fascists amongst us can get to wear an uniform! Such a \"police\" force would be the friends of the regular law abiding anglers, but the scoundrels that brake the rules would risk heavy fines in the courts and confiscation of fishing tackle (there could be some bargains to be had at seasonal confiscated tackle auctions).

I don\'t like the idea of more regulation, but the mechanism we have at present is broken, it needs fixing. Self regulation does not work, but sensible policies with a carrot and stick approach will.

[mark]

on game/coarse waters, you can pretty much fish when you like time wise, as long as its in season. The exxception being commercial trout fisheries who often have a dusk till dawn policy. I wouldn\'t/don\'t fish stocked commercial trout waters though, only wild fish for me.

I don\'t neccessarily think it would have to run to full blown fishing gestapo, and likewise I don\'t neccesarily subscribe to the licence idea. The money from freashwater rod licences is \'supposed\' to go to fisheries management, which is totally impractical with the sea.

There are already plenty of fisheries officers/EA baliffs employed, who do have a close season when they obviously have a reduced workload, so why can they not be diverted to the seaside in the various close seasons for coarse/game angling??

So as a simple starting point to see how things go, extending the jurisidiction of these guys to the coast would provide all concerned with valuable data as to wether we really need to regulate heavily.

Granted you ddo not neccesarily know where all the anglers will be, but my guess is that all the worst offenders will be on the piers.

I do believe that anglers who are prepared to struggle across miles of rocks/beach to get to the chosen mark are likely to be far more professional about their sport than the fair weather angler you\'d find down the pier in june, and from what I\'ve seen it is these that are the problem, not just with undersized fish but the amount of rubbish they leave behind.

On freshwater they have the power to confiscate your tackle there and then, although in practice rarely do so - issuing a \'producer\' of sortss for your paper work.

So for me, I think a \'study period\' of behaviour before enforcement. If after this time it becomes obvious some enforcement is needed then we only have ourselves to blaim.

[DaveMason]

I agree with Billy on this one , we are becoming a country of over regulation . The authorities cannot even protect the average citizen from burglars and muggers , what chance have they got to police thosands of miles of coastline day and night looking for tiddler killers .

The law only catches honest people by it\'s very nature . Anyone who has a permenant address and N.I number is easy to catch , it\'s the real hardcore who escapes completely .

On a more practical note , Correct me someone but I have have never heard of a fish stock being wiped out by pleasure anglers with rod and line yet . While the hand wringing goes on in the angling industry MILLIONS of tons of fish are hoverd up every year by the commercial boys , thats not to say we should not set an example Like

[Ell]

It\'s a shame that taking direct action is so dangerous as it\'s often the most effective method of challenging someones behaviour.

\"Hallow mate, catching I see, them\'s a bit small though, was that one size?\" next undersize fish may go back, maybe not .....
\"I normally only keep the big \'uns like\"
next one comes in .............
\"Why are you keeping that fish?\"

\"For the Cat\"

\"Do you realise it\'s actually illegal as well as doing no good to fish stocks, why are you actually here?\"
...............
\"Ouch, there was no need for that ........mind phoning me an ambulance, oh ok then I\'ll just see meself to hospital \"
(tha\'s me getting hit by the way, I do live in the real world sometimes)

There\'s nowt to say you can\'t have a little word with a few other anglers just to sound them out. If they\'re not interested in challenging someone then understandable (I probably wouldn\'t) if you get it together then it\'s maybe worth approaching someone on your tod knowing if it kicks off you\'ve got a bit of back up. I\'ve done it on The Ratty with great effect, no medals asked for but they won\'t be sent back. And the lads I spoke to begrudgingly accepted what I had to say. A bit less contentious than conservation issues as they were about to set a yacht on fire to keep warm

What I\'m saying is sometimes it\'s down to us to sort things out. Notice I am \"saying\" this and not necessarily \"doing\" it.

[Edited on 16/3/2004 by Ell]

[TC]

Mebbies not a medal, Ell.....but certainly worthy of an award, m8.....



Next time we see a tiddler hostage situation, call for the NESA Negotiator.

[Chris_Hughes]

I vote for Sheriff Elliot in charge of the pussy, sorry posse.

[DaveMason]

Tony,

Tell us again why none of your fish are deemed undersize after being , eerrmm \"Seen to \"?????????

[Ell]

How man! my heart was beating and my dander was up whilst posting what I thought was a contentious and serious post.

Reaping my sowing. Thanks for helping me to wind my neck in. I\'ll be back (muffled cries)

[Red5]

I believe there are a lot of people out there who are completely ignorant of the actual size limits of a lot of fish. I\'ve lost count of the amount of times I\'ve fished next to someone who doesn\'t know the minimum size of a coalie or who has left their tape measure at home so just assumes it\'s size. Everyone who goes out wether they are an experienced angler or a holiday maker just wanting to pass an hour or two should be aware of the National limits. Not having fished any further south than Amble I wouldn\'t know if there are posters on the piers that state size limits but there was always one at Boulmer on the Kilp House (where the fish were taken by the coble fishermen).

[Doc]

Like it or not rod licences for sea anglers are on the way, in fact they are imminent.

Regarding bag limits, a new byelaw dedicated to protect bass stocks in the NESFC district (Tyne to the Humber) will place a bag limit on anglers of 2 bass per day. This byelaw is likely to go on the statute books this year. So bag limits are also imminent.

[micky-quayle]

don\'t really know if rod licences for sea fishing would be a good thing. the rod licence money collected by the ea from rod licences is put to good use much of the time but in all my time piking i have never once had my rod licence checked. however when they do check licences they prosecute for very minor transgressions. many pikers like to fish three rods so buy two rod licences to enable them to do so. now the best setup when fishing three rods is to fish them on banksticks spaced about 4 or 5 meters apart, this helps prevent a fish being played crashing through your other lines and maybe getting tangled and lost with a trace still in its mouth, the ea however stipulate that the rod buts must be no further than 3 meters apart and prosecute over even a few cms, granted no one wants to see rods spaced 30 meters apart, for the fishes sake but common sense seems to take a back seat. the ea have also in there wisdom banned the use of all fresh water lives and deads on many lake district waters even if the bait fish in question were caught from that water, now in those circumstances there would be no risk of either translocation of either species or disease. i\'m afraid if rod licences were brought in for sea angling there would be many many rules to follow, most probably for the good but undoubtedly judging by there track record some stupid and misconstrued ones too. anyway it would be hard to implement due to the wording of the magna carta, i can\'t remember the exact wording but it goes something like this, anything which is ancillary to fishing may be taken from the foreshore beyond the mean low water mark i\'m sure someone will correct me if i\'m wrong. i believe there is also other statements in the magna carta which reffer to fishing and would make the introduction of licences difficult.