RSA: A Survey of the District. A Strategy for 2013-14

[tonyfromalnwick]

Budle Bay has been mentioned and is a matter for Natural England.

Yet you say you are working closely with Natural England. Surely if you are working together (as equal partners?) you will have a significant input.

Or are you just passing the buck ?

[Stores]

Yet you say you are working closely with Natural England. Surely if you are working together (as equal partners?) you will have a significant input.

Or are you just passing the buck ?

Hi Mr NIFCA and thank you for your prompt reply.

Looking at the make up of Natural England they seem a reasonable bunch with, as you would expect, conservation at the top of their agenda. That, logically, will mean that conserving the sea grass will mean protecting it from any form of disruption and top of that list will be digging from RSA's and using mobile gear from boats.

Tony, I think rather than NIFCA passing the buck (if, indeed, that is accurate) the sentence on a previous reply:

"Northumberland IFCA have been DIRECTED to protect the sea grass by......."

is illuminating. Rather than hiding behind the backs of others maybe they're being pushed in certain directions, (usually away from what we would want) because others have a louder voice than ours which, at present, appears to be as effective as shouting into an easterly wind with Miss Fenwick blowing.

Any idea of a date for the publishing of the maps?

[Stores]

Hello Mr NIFCA. Here we are again. It's nearly a week since we chatted so I thought I'd re-new our acquaintance.

I realise that there is a considerable amount of political manouvering going on and some of the questions posed are likely to get the stock answer "We will take into account all of your views and thoughts" ...but putting that aside here's some of my more up to date questions:

- I've looked on your website and can't find the minutes to the EAGM - that was 4 weeks ago - will it be published? If so, when? (please - "not soon")

- I've read your Strategic Plan 2013 - 2016. Can I ask a couple of things?

1. With regard to areas of the coast that are deemed, "by others" (my words) as most important, you say:

"It is important to know the extent of the features designated for protection so that we can reach a better understanding of how fishing activity interacts with said features and also, most importantly, how the mapping of said features can be used in conjunction with technology such as iVMS to ensure that a sustainable fishery can be maintained whilst protecting the marine environment."

You said the maps that were given out at the meetings (were they actually?) would be on line. I still can't find them. Please re-direct me if I'm being blind. Can you, re the above, produce a sustainable fishery without them or is there more to them not being available?

2. I was also interested in the following two statements in the document:

"In addition, IFCAs have a legal obligation to ‘further the conservation objectives’ of MCZs."and:

"The Northumberland IFCA must protect red risk features listed in the DEFRA Matrix by December 2013."

Could you explain the consequence to sea anglers, both shore and afloat, of going "further" with conservation measures and who is pulling the "legal" strings? and finally........

December 2013 isn't very far away. This could be done and dusted before your website actually says anything.

I really, really hope I'm barking up the wrong tree here because I've spoken to a number of people who have great faith in your work with regard to fair play for the RSA and I believe that's the most we can hope for but the questions, to me, are there to be asked.

Look forward to your illuminating replies.

David
(I think David is better than Member, which may be misconstrued)

[Northumberland IFCA]

David,

Further to your post of 24th September 2013; the minutes of our Extraordinary General Meeting on 28th August 2013 will go before the main committee for approval at our quarterly meeting on 22nd October 2013 and should then be uploaded onto the NIFCA website within the following week.

The maps to which you refer were indeed available at the meetings and are due to go online today. Regarding your reference to MCZs, Red Risk Features and their consequence to RSA, I must stress the complexity of MCZs and EMS (which are different subjects).

The process is ongoing and we cannot foresee exactly how things will develop but we will continue to consult and inform as much as possible. In the meantime however, I have discussed your posts with our Vice Chairman Les Weller (MMO appointed) who is himself a sea angler and NESA member. He would be very happy to speak with you or to be be contacted by email.

A pm has been sent with his details. We hope the above is of assistance.

[Stores]

David,

Further to your post of 24th September 2013; the minutes of our Extraordinary General Meeting on 28th August 2013 will go before the main committee for approval at our quarterly meeting on 22nd October 2013 and should then be uploaded onto the NIFCA website within the following week.

The maps to which you refer were indeed available at the meetings and are due to go online today. Regarding your reference to MCZs, Red Risk Features and their consequence to RSA, I must stress the complexity of MCZs and EMS (which are different subjects).

The process is ongoing and we cannot foresee exactly how things will develop but we will continue to consult and inform as much as possible. In the meantime however, I have discussed your posts with our Vice Chairman Les Weller (MMO appointed) who is himself a sea angler and NESA member. He would be very happy to speak with you or to be be contacted by email.

A pm has been sent with his details. We hope the above is of assistance.

Mr NIFCA,

Many thanks for your reply, especially those covering the EAGM and the maps, both of which I now understand. I must apologise for not contacting the Vice Chairman sooner, as I would have liked to do.

Thank you, also, for pointing out that complexities exist between Marine Conservation Zones, European Marine Sites, Red Risk features et al. Did you think that members of NESA would not be able to take on board those complex issues or would it be inappropriate for you to explain the issues on an open forum? I actually get quite frustrated when trying to become more knowlegable about these changes. One example, not new, but brought back into the limelight actually refers to EMS' and is from DEFRA's consultation document December 2012 and I quote:

"2.3.3 European Marine sites include:
��
Special Areas of Conservation10 (SACs) which protect specific habitats (listed on Annex I to the Habitats Directive11) such as reefs, shallow sandbanks and intertidal mudflats and specific species (listed on Annex II to the Habitats Directive), such as seals; and
��
Special Protection Areas (SPAs) for migratory birds and/or those listed on Annex I to the Birds Directive12, such as puffins, sandwich tern and common scoter."

Where is Annex 1? or Annex 2? Certainly not in the DEFRA Consultation document on my lap top and then where do I look?......what happens is I have another glass of wine and retire to Coronation St, having been given some information, but unable to make connections to what the outcomes might be. I hope you can see my point.

Will speak to Les asap.

David

[redtop69]

So in laymans terms wot does this mean so far( basically so people like myself who tend not to use political speak) to the basic shore angler, and how it directly affects us!

[Stores]

So in laymans terms wot does this mean so far( basically so people like myself who tend not to use political speak) to the basic shore angler, and how it directly affects us!

What it means is that there are going to be parts of the shore line (those areas with sea grass in them) that you'll be unable to dig worm. I've still to see the map (might be my fault) but if Mr. NIFCA could put a link up it would really help.

After the RED tranche of decisions have gone through (by December THIS year) the AMBER ones appear and that could affect bait collection between Coquet Island and St Marys so we could have no go areas all the way up to the Borders.

Soon all those on this and other fishing boards who said they would ignore the by laws or who threatened violence should anyone interfere with their "rights" to collect bait will be put to the test. With other IFCA's doing similar things it might not be easy to just drive up the coast or across to Cumbria to make up your bait supply. S**t and fan spring to mind.

[redtop69]

Is it not pointless though as the burrows of the actual worms are no where near the mentioned seagrass! If a map of those areas is available id like to see it so i know where i can and cant collect bait! I think this government should recognise that fishing IS a sport( obviously not an olympic one) that a large proportion of the country participate in and if they want votes they should be helping not hindering us!

[Stores]

Is it not pointless though as the burrows of the actual worms are no where near the mentioned seagrass! If a map of those areas is available id like to see it so i know where i can and cant collect bait! I think this government should recognise that fishing IS a sport( obviously not an olympic one) that a large proportion of the country participate in and if they want votes they should be helping not hindering us!

Every time you think Government replace it with EU directive. Remember British law is second to EU law.

[redtop69]

Id like to see somebody walk from the eu to the beaches round here and tell folk that theres a line in the sand where they cant dig! What is the actual law enforcing?

[Stores]

Id like to see somebody walk from the eu to the beaches round here and tell folk that theres a line in the sand where they cant dig! What is the actual law enforcing?

Please I'm no expert on these things, just a worried bystander, concerned enough from my cosy life 200 miles from the North East to actually show interest but my understanding is that our NIFCA (and I like them and think they're not anti RSA at all) are being instructed to do the biddings of others. Here's an example from elsewhere via WSF

World Sea Fishing Forums

No need for a line in the sand when you've got a cameras, video recorder or whatever.

[redtop69]

Maybe its because your so fond of the north east as you grew up and fished here! Its so sad that a popular pastime, hobby and sport has to be governed by so many strict guidelines! I bet none of the people wanting these actions have actually picked up a rod n line, maybe then they would see it in a different light!

[Geordie-UK]

David,

Further to your post of 24th September 2013; the minutes of our Extraordinary General Meeting on 28th August 2013 will go before the main committee for approval at our quarterly meeting on 22nd October 2013 and should then be uploaded onto the NIFCA website within the following week.

The maps to which you refer were indeed available at the meetings and are due to go online today. Regarding your reference to MCZs, Red Risk Features and their consequence to RSA, I must stress the complexity of MCZs and EMS (which are different subjects).

The process is ongoing and we cannot foresee exactly how things will develop but we will continue to consult and inform as much as possible. In the meantime however, I have discussed your posts with our Vice Chairman Les Weller (MMO appointed) who is himself a sea angler and NESA member. He would be very happy to speak with you or to be be contacted by email.

A pm has been sent with his details. We hope the above is of assistance.

Hi, I would like to raise some concerns, all of which have not been raised so far with the severe lack of information that has been supplied both here and on the NIFCA website and pdf's.

Firstly, there are 15 species of Zostera, which particular one are NIFCA focused on? bearing in mind that the most common and widespread Sea grass in the northern hemisphere is Zostera marina, and that species is highly widespread throughout the UK's waters, it grows everywhere that there is slow water, sand, and sediment, and is extremely prolific, and the UK actually has the largest concentration in the world of that species.

Secondly, you stated

the minutes of our Extraordinary General Meeting on 28th August 2013 will go before the main committee for approval at our quarterly meeting on 22nd October 2013 and should then be uploaded onto the NIFCA website within the following week

Given that the meeting was held on the 28th of august, don't you think that a two month delay for a matter as serious as banning bait digging from area's that contain one of the most abundant and prolific spreading weeds in the sea, and quite conveniently so close the 5th november deadline, which will have a detrimental effect on sea anglers, bait diggers, tackle shops, and their suppliers, is being orchestrated to prevent as much protest and discussion as possible?.....

Thirdly, if it is regarding Zostera Marina, who ordered the most common and prolific sea grass to be protected? you said it was an EU directive, but it beggars belief that a protection order has been placed upon Zostera Marina if that is the case, its like putting a protection order on seagulls or wood pigeons...

I have found this:

http://www.nifca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Number2.pdf

In the exemptions it does state that fishing with rod and line is allowed, if that is the case, why is bait digging prohibited?

[Stores]

Hi, I would like to raise some concerns, all of which have not been raised so far with the severe lack of information that has been supplied both here and on the NIFCA website and pdf's.

Firstly, there are 15 species of Zostera, which particular one are NIFCA focused on? bearing in mind that the most common and widespread Sea grass in the northern hemisphere is Zostera marina, and that species is highly widespread throughout the UK's waters, it grows everywhere that there is slow water, sand, and sediment, and is extremely prolific, and the UK actually has the largest concentration in the world of that species.

Secondly, you stated

Given that the meeting was held on the 28th of august, don't you think that a two month delay for a matter as serious as banning bait digging from area's that contain one of the most abundant and prolific spreading weeds in the sea, and quite conveniently so close the 5th november deadline, which will have a detrimental effect on sea anglers, bait diggers, tackle shops, and their suppliers, is being orchestrated to prevent as much protest and discussion as possible?.....

Thirdly, if it is regarding Zostera Marina, who ordered the most common and prolific sea grass to be protected? you said it was an EU directive, but it beggars belief that a protection order has been placed upon Zostera Marina if that is the case, its like putting a protection order on seagulls or wood pigeons...

I have found this:

http://www.nifca.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Number2.pdf

In the exemptions it does state that fishing with rod and line is allowed, if that is the case, why is bait digging prohibited?

Hi Geordie-UK,

Have just pm'd you re the "need your help" thread then just read this.........

think I'm falling in love.........................

fantastic reply, way out of my depth, hope to God it's accurate lol

[amblecol]

great reply from Geordie uk, this seagrass question seems to make up a large part of the argument but where does it come from? Was it a survey? if so by whom and when? can we have access to it to see if Geordie uk was right. Was it done as a one off or repeated every month for a year? there's a big difference between a july day and after a December storm. Why is it so important to wildlife? I would have thought a ban on sandeel and sprat fishing in the North Sea would be of much greater importance to both birds and fish as they are the building blocks of so much wildlife.
The acronyms used in these consultations are becoming confusing to the extent that few understand where they start and end, and more worrying I think some say they understand but don't. Seems the more complex it gets the more likely it will end up in the hands of the legal system and who can afford the best lawyers.
Great work done so far by NESA lads and Geordie has raised good points.