Paranoid ?

[Codfather]

I used to enjoy hare coursing and look what the polititions did with that.

You keep on fighting.

[Oblickta]

Chieftain fishes wrecks miles offshore that cant be trawled or netted cos its too far to be economical for commercials and no other charter boat can get out so for so long. Some of the wrecks she fishes haven't been fished for over a year. It's all down to logistics

I know two experienced anglers who paid nearly £800 for a 70 hour trip + travel to Whitby and loads of terminal tackle and caught one mackerel between them. Chieftain has bad days as well as good days like the rest of the charter fleet but they're not reported.

If anglers are going to post pics of big catches they should do the maths and post that too like Mark pointed out

[codhw]

I agee with most of the comments posted we all have a responsibility for the fish we take and for the education of the macky bashers, quality not quantity

[yorkio]

chieftain trips go a long long way offshore, 60 to 80 miles, dogger bank or beyond and ain't cheap - 3 to 400 quid I seem to recall, so a dozen or more anglers over 3 days pulled up 103 stone of fillets = 1400lbs or so, which in the round would be around 2000lb I'd guess. which is about 160lb of fish each, over 3 days, thats 50 odd lb each per day, which is probably around 10 or so fish.... which suddenly doesn't look a lot, and as pointed out caught in an environmentally responsible and selective manner.

Just seen the latest report - 176 stone of fillets between 12 of them from a 94 hour trip. The guy who's written up the report has come home with 17 stone (276lb) of cod! Just how big are these blokes' freezers?! Don't they get bored eating bloody cod?

[Oblickta]

176 / 12 = 14.6 stone (204.4lb) average per angler
204.4 / 94(hours) = 2.17lb per hour
94 hour trip + travel and terminal tackle = £600 (worked out on what I paid)
£600 / 94 = £6.38 average per hour (Cost to fish)

I'm not sticking up for greedy anglers but would you gripe if someone went on a 8 hour charter and came back with 8 fish averaging 5lb each cos it's about the same pound for pound, hour for hour?
These type of reports dont help much but if your going to post them please put it in perspective

[ScottyJim]

We’re skirting around the main point. The regulated commercial fleet are under increasing pressure through quota cuts, etc, and their representatives are trying hard to defend the indefensible. One of their most vociferous critics is the angling community. As such, the last thing they need to do is to supply the commercials with these kind of details. It will be argued that recreational anglers are now catching more fish than the inshore fleet, and that these catch reports are typical of all recreational angler’s catches. I have no doubt that the allegation will also be raised, that, for the quantities caught, there is no way that it is for personal consumption, and that much of it going for sale. I say again, politicians and “Joe Public” do not know what is going on in real life out at sea, so these reports will be believed as being typical. This kind of information can only persuade the politicians that we have to be regulated, and so hasten the introduction of the sea fishing licence, plus an inevitable bag limit. People who publish these types of catch reports are not only cutting their own throats, but those of every other angler.

[Oblickta]

Maybe it would be just as benificial to let the politicians and Joe public know that an angler has to pay £530 + (94 hours) and be taken to Norway for 15 hour fishing sessions to have a good days fishing, that used to be the norm for all the charter boats not that long ago!

[mark]

Cheiftain is virtually the only boat in the country that takes anglers far enough off for long enough a length of time to make such hauls, and they don't have catches like the last 2 that often

there's still way way more commercial boats fishing than charter boats, even trips like the chieftain are putting in are small potatoes compared to the take, environmental damage, discards etc of the commercial fleet

would they raise it as an arguement for an RSA licence, maybe maybe not, doubt it would add any weight to all the arguements that were thrown up last time

the commerical industries problems lie squarely with the quota system and the way its being traded - basically gets traded like futures get traded on the stock exchange, some anonymous plc buys a whole heap of quota, then rents it back to the boats marked up to make a healthy profit for the share holders and sod everything else.

Learnt this week that one of the largest holders of UK fish quotas at the moment is Manchester United plc! explain than one to me if you can!

[ScottyJim]

Your right about the trading of the quota system, Mark. Up here in Scotland we have separate control of most fishing issues, incuding quotas. The Scottish parliament has a consultation document out about this. The key points being,
1. To safeguard Scotland’s traditional fishing rights for now and the future by keeping them in Scotland.
2. Make sure Scottish fishermen get their fair share of quota providing stability and security so that businesses can plan for the future.
3. Make sure fishing quotas are only held by businesses who fish them.
4. Encourage new blood into the industry by seeking to develop a new entrants scheme that will allow new fishermen to access quota.
5. Reform licensing to make it simpler and user-friendly so reducing business costs.
At least they are trying to get a grip on these kinds of issues up here. Point 3 will mean that the Man Utd issue should get eliminated.

[Red5]

Maybe it would be just as benificial to let the politicians and Joe public know that an angler has to pay £530 + (94 hours) and be taken to Norway for 15 hour fishing sessions to have a good days fishing, that used to be the norm for all the charter boats not that long ago!

You'd probably find that those people going to Norway, still aren't going to keep 176 stone of cod with practically every single fish being returned.

It was mentioned in the white paper on the licence about RSA's selling fish on the black market and I agree with Scotty Jim about the commercial fleet (who are for the first time in 100 years coming under intense scrutiny), looking for us anglers as scapegoats. Doesn't matter about statictics because people take out of them the bits that they want to belive or feel relevant. Instead of not discussing their huge catches why don't they put most of the fish back and enjoy the days fishing or is catching and killing as many as you can all that fishing is about like the macky bashers on the piers

[jason]

one thing that has not been mentioned is that the chieftain fishes a wreck at the most twice a year. They are there for selective and allows the wreck to recover its eco system when fishing is finished, they are the only boat who goes out that far and will therefore be the only boat to fish those wrecks.

[ScottyJim]

I know a couple of eco-friendly fishermen. If somebody would like to send me some gps coordinates of some good productive wrecks, I’ll pass them on to them. Being eco-friendly they’ll promise not to trawl the area, as that damages the sea bottom and results in dead bycatch. I’ll get them to promise only to use gill nets and long lines. Please don’t worry now, even though they’ll be keeping every fish they catch. They’ll only visit your wreck twice a year. That of course means there will be plenty of time for the fish to restock, before they come back to “eco-fish” it again. They’ll also promise not to pass these coordinates on, so no one else will fish it in between visits, meaning of course, that you’ve nothing to worry about. Oh , also, if the wreck is a little further out, that’s ok. Everyone knows, of course, that fish never migrate inshore, or any of their resultant offspring, so everything is hunky dory. Isn’t it ? What’s that you say ? Your not too keen on commercial fishermen doing this ? Well, still send me some coordinates. I know some eco-friendly recreational anglers …….. !

[davem2005]

I've been watching this thread with intrest for a few weeks and wanted to comment but its interesting to see how others think.

Both sides of the arguement hold water...we have a right to catch them and our fishing is recognised as being sustainable and enviromentally friendly.

But to post pics of massive final bags after a marathon session by 12 anglers wont do our case any good when it comes to any discussion on bag limits.

The good news is that in all my trips down to westminster etc ...what is happening up here does not get a look in...so a few good bags of cod are likely to go un noticed.

Scotty the scottish consultation and attitude is very different to ours...basically if it doesn't contain the word BASS no one in the uk reads it.

I have spent some time trying to make Defra and NAtural England realise that it is next to impossible for NE anglers to get a fair representaion at talks due to the distances and cost of attending meetings. Defra could not seem to give a dam but Natural England do "hope" to hold more meetings up here.

The good news is for every picture you can post of anglers showing off their " one in a lifetime catch" I could probably post an equivalent one of commercials dumping perfectly good fish back dead due to their reluctance to accept more selective fishing methods.

And lets not forget that they do it daily!!!

Cheers
Dave

[jason]

i think that i too could post pictures of trips when we have caught one or two fish or even blanked. the other point i forgot to point out how fish friendly is it in major charter ports where the boats hit the same wrecks everyday - not only in the fish caught and cleaning a wreck of all fish but all the lost sets of gear hanging on the wreck with up to 6 hooks hanging there to catch which is one of the reasons i now do not fish with more than 3 hooks whether jigger with 2 above or 3 above a lead (apart from daylites for mackeral fishing again all would get used as bait or taken home). So i am conciencious of what i catch and make sure that i only have what i know will get eaten on the few days after capture with the odd day where i will freeze down for later. I only ever give fish to a few who i know will appreciated it and not waste it.

[davem2005]

Jason,
I would not worry in the sligtest about a few bits of lost gear.

I dont have the details on this pc but tomorrow will post estimated figures supplied by commercials of gear lost in the Northumberland European Marine Site annually. This is the marine equivalent of an SSSI and represents a very small proportion of our shoreline. It puts your lost jigger and a few daylights into prospective.

Another point brought up by Oblikta in post #21 I think. 12 anglers paid 530 quid each. lets say each also spent a few hundred on gear/travel/new equipment and bait for that trip.

So thats say 12 X 600 quid into the coffers of UK PLC...vat on 3000 quid goes straight to the gov. Theres no discards...no wasteage...value for money as far as the gov go ...and argueably sustainable usage of our natural resources. The chieftain is providing a service and paying taxes on it. There would be no need to travel that far and go for days on end if things were not in a bad state. Its not my chosen kind of fishing but there are plenty who are prepared to pay for it.